How many people here are religious?

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Snortimer

Vortininja
(9/7/00 12:31 am)
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How many people here are religious?

someone please delete the "Christian" one... sorry.

Results (total votes = 67):


I am.	33 / 49.3%

I'm not.	26 / 38.8%

I'm in-between.	8 / 11.9%

"You cannot pass!" he said.
With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed.

Snortimer

Vorticon Elite
Posts: 592
(2/7/01 4:05 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Oh, BTW, someone said before in some previous argument that most of Americans are christians. Actually, I checked that out and found that "only" 47% of Americans are christians.
However, the persentage of Americans who believe in God is (I think) 93%.

"You cannot pass!" he said.
With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed.

RoboRed
Vortininja
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(2/13/01 2:05 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

I believe in God.

P.S. I think you should have asked what kind of religon people believe in. And why do you hate christians?

Lyris
Vortininja
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(2/14/01 1:30 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

uhh - where did he say he hated em?

Stardust Entertainment:
Click here for Myth of the Moon Stone previews!

RoboRed
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(2/14/01 11:50 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
---------------------------------------------------
someone please delete the "Christian" one... sorry.
---------------------------------------------------

That's where he said it,Lyris.

chogall
Vorticon Elder
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(2/14/01 11:54 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

IIRC, he didn't say that he hated Christians there either. But the poll had only 2 choices: "I'm christian" and "I prefer science". Some people pointed out that that was absurd, so he posted another one, more correct.

RoboRed
Vortininja
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(2/15/01 3:24 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Oh,

ManderKeen
Vortininja
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(4/24/02 3:44 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

I'm an absolute nihilist(if that's the word). I don't believe in anything supernatural, nor in some kind of nature-spirits etc. nor in a god of any kind.

------------------------------------------------------------
But Althalus raised his hand, saying, "Leoht!" And a wall of purest light barred Ghend from his goal.
Ghend howled, and all the flaming hosts of Nahgharash howled with him.

-The Redemption of Althalus

Flaose
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(4/25/02 12:41 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

So you believe only in yourself, and your amazing hands! <superhero music plays>

ManderKeen
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(4/27/02 12:46 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

No, I think I'm a loser, a nerd etc...

And besides, I don't think there's anything bad about either:

being religious, as long as it doesn't go out of reason(eg. go and yell "Jesus saves us all!" out on some street)
or
not being religious at all.

And I am truly sorry, if I have insulted someone with my words, but these are my opinions, and everyone has a right to have one.

Edited by: ManderKeen at: 4/27/02 7:51:40 am

Hanno Embregts
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(6/26/02 7:17 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

"What will people think, when they see I'm a Jesus-freak?
What will people do, when they know that it's true?
I don't really care, if they label me a Jesus-freak
There ain't no disguising the truth!"
- DC Talk

"Do or do not, there is no try."
-- Yoda

ManderKeen
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(6/26/02 12:19 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

www.jesus.com/

(No offense to christianity mean't.)

The Upravlenie
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(8/6/02 7:56 pm)
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Hey, Snortimer:

I know this one is old, but I couldn't resist making a comment. Either one is religious or one isn't; There is no in-between.

"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination." -Morton Shulman

Edited by: The Upravlenie at: 8/6/02 7:57:33 pm

KeenEmpire
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Re: Hey, Snortimer:

God is, God isn't, or God might be.

Edited by: Keen Second Universal Empire at: 8/14/21 6:32:58 am

therealdopefish
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Re: Hey, Snortimer:

I can't believe someone does really believe in a God. It's also a waste of time to spent time on wandering why we're here, because you don't know the answer. At least I don't believe in a large guy controlling the world. We live in the 21st century. Lightning doesn't come from evil gods.

I don't believe in God for 100%. There's no hesitation. People who would hesitate would answer "in-between"

The Upravlenie
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(8/14/02 3:59 pm)
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Re: Hey, Snortimer:

Quote:
"God is, God isn't, or God might be. "

Okay, I see your point. From a persons point of view God might be. Either God is or God isn't. Yes I believe in absolutes.

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." -George Gobol.

Djaser
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(8/18/02 7:31 pm)
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Re: Hey, Snortimer:

Wow so many people here are religious or half.
I believe too!!! YEAH!!!!

therealdopefish
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(8/19/02 12:02 pm)
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Re: Hey, Snortimer:

Everybody who believes in God: Don't imitate your parents. Parents are stupid. You act the same as you did as a kid when you believed in Santa Clause. You know it ain't true, but you believe it. Without any religons there will be no war(No stupid Israel news) and no people commiting suicide because they think there's heaven. Also no September the 11th accident would have occured. Christians are the most stupid ones(they think they're the best and the correct ones), followed by the Islam. Only Hindoe and Booddha are respected by me as they pay more attention on how to live on earth then thinking whether there's a god or not.

If heaven means living forever and do everything you want then heaven is an inferno IMO. You don't want to live forever!

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 8/19/02 3:01:55 pm

Djaser
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Now listen Therearealldopefish you can go too far of course this is a forum and you can say what you want but there are limits.
What have you against believers most believers don't want violence. Do you remember that the laws against murder and thieves are Christian. Would you rather have that hands of thieves would be hacked and murders be burned.
Our welfare facilities are from the bible which says that you must take care of woman who has lost their husband our people without money. And about your Israel news their war is not for their faith but because their origin, can you solve their problem. In Israel lives many Arabs in peace with the Jewish. And about imitating your parents you imitate you parents too!!! All what you have learned is right is from your parents and everything you know is from books or school but have you ever seen real prove for everything you have learned: No You haven't!!! But I'm afraid that your parents forgot to teach you respect for other people and their opinion.
Better take back what you've said because I think you have crossed more people!!!

Edited by: Djaser at: 8/19/02 12:51:57 pm

ManderKeen
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Re: How many people here are religious?

So, you're saying that arguments against teligion are wrong and for it are right? That's a bit childish, isn't it?

Djaser
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Re: How many people here are religious?

sigh no I don't say that... And I aren't going to tell you that I'm right and you are wrong. I'm not a religious extremist. And I'm not trying to convert people.
However if people say thing like 'All Christians die in Hell' or 'you stupid idiot who believe in any religion' and 'Christians are the most stupid ones, followed by the Islam' than I feel offended. Isn't that logical there are many believers on this forum nobody here should say things like. Can't you imagine that. But what was a opinion for Therearealldopefis have I answered with arguments. I hope I made myself clear.

therealdopefish
Vortininja
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(8/19/02 3:00 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

For the people who think they're offended: Sorry, I didn't mean it. The fact is that in reality there's no God. As a child there was a time I had no friends. In that time I found out Christianity is an utopia. Finding out what reality is, might be very painful(and is seen as offended).

May be I was a bit too strict, but would it have effect to think about if there's a god? Look at animals and plants. They don't believe in God and they aren't violent(carnivorous animals kill other animals, because of food or competition, not because of an opinion).
OK, there are good points in the bible, but most of them are old-fashioned. The Bible says how you must live a good human life, not how you must believe in gods. Everything is taken so seriously by the Christian and Islam. Humankind created god, not viceversa. If you are Christian, because of how to live, I respect. If you believe in God: It's hard to tolerate for me. I don't need the Bible to prevent that I kill other people, because I wouldn't kill other people myself.
I'm very tolerant to any race(without needing the bible to be tolerant), except to people who believe in God. These people believe in God, because their parent believe in God, whose parents believe in god, etc.(that's reality). My Grandpa was a pretty extreme Christian and I respected him, but that doesn't make me a Christian because he is.

My complaints about things written in the bible:
Humans are superior to animals. Human might be smarter than animals, but animals have other good properties. In that way you could also say cheetahs are superior because of speed or whales because of size.
Only people who are pure-hearted can go to heaven. On the other side it says everyone should be tolerant to others as everyone is equal. Why is God allowed to tell people if they're pure-hearted or not?
If Jezus would come back to earth, the people calling themselves "Christians" wouldn't believe him. They would think he's a loonatic. Jezus is just like Martin Luther King and Gandhi, except Jezus is only talking about how to believe in God and not about humanity. If it was Gandhi or Martin Luther King living in Jezus' time we would all be Gandhians or Martin-Kingians. Said otherwise: Jezus is just a person, not the son of god.

BTW: I'm not a communist, a nazi-ist or gay(thankfully not).

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 8/19/02 3:51:13 pm

Djaser
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Okee thanks Therearealldopefish but I wasn't offended because truth is painful but because you said things like all Christians die in hell.

About plants and animals who don't believe in God and human who is superior to them. Humans are the only specie on earth who can think abstract so they believe in God this makes them superior to other creatures. Understand me I'm not an animal hater I've worked a long time in a reptite looking after frogs and salamanders and I'm vegetarian.
My Grandpa is also an extreme Christian and I always says to me that it is a sin to be a vegetarian. This sort of things have a very negative effect on other people if it had on you. Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's why you are so negative about Christianity.
I think that you can say that it is a fact that our society comes from the bible our ancestors the Germans and Celts (I think most people here are from their origin) had completely other society as we have. And if Gandhi lived in the time of Jesus maybe would we in that case indeed had Gandiists. But because this hasn't happened we couldn't be sure. And about his comeback: that will be a completely different one than you are saying. How it would is written in the bible but I won't explain because it's of no importance for you (I think you aren't interested in a bible lesson

) . And if you say that people take some things of the bible to serious than you are right at some point. But have a look at the Muslims which you called second stupidest they are more strict in their Koran.

therealdopefish
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Yeah, and humans aren't the largest animals and also not the fastest. They also aren't the most powerful. All they have is a superior brain. Already edited the last post. Every animal has it's own abilities, just like humans have their own abilities. All humans are equal even though they have different abilities, so animals are equal to humans as well. Got it? I want to be a bit more down-to-earth then believe everything my parents tell me.
About the Christians: most Christians say they're Christians because their parents are Christians. They actually don't know what Christianity really is. That's why I don't like Christianity.

Oh yeah, I do believe in Hypnosis(seen a show and it impressed me). I see Hypnosis as programming a human.

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 8/19/02 6:36:08 pm

Djaser
Vortininja
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Don't know what Christianity is can you explain that. I really haven't heard about this before :stunned

...
And I thought (can be wrong) that even the evolution theory says that humans are the most advanced specie in this world.
Remember that humans are the only specie who dominated the world and destroy much other nature

ManderKeen
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Hypnosis is a deeper form of trance. A trance can be achieved very easily. eg. If you walk the same road, say, to school, every day, and the road isn't too difficult to walk, you might sort-of lose conciousness for a little while, but you still keep walking(!). Then you "wake up" and are amazed at the fact that you have walked a mile or so. When you "wake up", you can't remember anything about the walk.
This happens to me very often.

ManderKeen
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Re: How many people here are religious?

"Human's should not be classified as mammals. A better definition would be virus"
A quote from matrix.

adurdin
Wormouth
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(8/20/02 8:37 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Ooohh, goodie, lots of stuff to reply to in therealdopefish's post!

Quote:

The fact is that in reality there's no God.

That sounds almost like trolling...
Saying "the fact is this" is always dangerous, especially when one doesn't support such a hypothesis with evidence...

Quote:

As a child there was a time I had no friends. In that time I found out Christianity is an utopia. Finding out what reality is, might be very painful (and is seen as offended).

Christianity is not a Utopia. Christianity is definitely about reality. Do you consider yourself open-minded? Try reading some biographies of Christians, and find out. I can suggest a few:

(1) Acts, or "The Acts of the Apostles": the fifth book in the New Testament (in the Bible). I'm sure you could find a copy of this without trouble.
(2) The Hiding Place, by Corrie Ten Boom - the story of her & her family's imprisonment by the Germans in WWII. This one should also be fairly easy to come by.
(3) Lords of the Earth, by Don Richardson. The biography of a Christian missionary to Irian Jaya. This one might be harder to find.

Read one of these, and then say if you still think Christianity is a Utopia.

Quote:

Look at animals and plants. They don't believe in God and they aren't violent(carnivorous animals kill other animals, because of food or competition, not because of an opinion).

I don't think it's very realistic to talk of animals, and especially plants, believing in things or having opinions. Although we have evidence to suggest that some animals at least possess rudimentary intelligence in areas of counting, simple problems, etc., there is still no evidence to suggest that they are capable of forming opinions or beliefs, or other such individual thinking.

Quote:

OK, there are good points in the bible, but most of them are old-fashioned. The Bible says how you must live a good human life, not how you must believe in gods.

The Bible is not about living a good human life. It would be more accurate to say it is about the impossibility of living a good human life (though that is not the whole of it, of course - otherwise how depressing it would be)

Quote:

I'm very tolerant to any race(without needing the bible to be tolerant), except to people who believe in God. These people believe in God, because their parent believe in God, whose parents believe in god, etc.(that's reality). My Grandpa was a pretty extreme Christian and I respected him, but that doesn't make me a Christian because he is.

Good! It's great that you understand that. No-one is a Christian because their parents (or other relatives) are. That would be like saying I'm an astronomer because my dad has a PhD in astrophysics -- I might have become interested in astronomy and learned a lot about it because of him, but I would be an astronomer because of what I learned etc., not just because he was one. Unfortunately, as you say, there are many people who think that they are Christians because there parents were.

Quote:

My complaints about things written in the bible:
Humans are superior to animals. Human might be smarter than animals, but animals have other good properties. In that way you could also say cheetahs are superior because of speed or whales because of size.

The claim that humans are "superior" to animals is not based on any innate "good properties", but rather on a delegated position. According to the Bible, mankind was appointed by God to govern the animals.

Quote:

Only people who are pure-hearted can go to heaven. On the other side it says everyone should be tolerant to others as everyone is equal. Why is God allowed to tell people if they're pure-hearted or not?

No-one is pure-hearted, according to the Bible. Let me quote: "There is no one who does good, not even one" - Psalm 14:3, Romans 3:12. "All have sinned" - Romans 3:23. And in not a few other places, although I can't remember any off the top of my head.

Quote:

If Jezus would come back to earth, the people calling themselves "Christians" wouldn't believe him. They would think he's a loonatic. Jezus is just like Martin Luther King and Gandhi, except Jezus is only talking about how to believe in God and not about humanity. If it was Gandhi or Martin Luther King living in Jezus' time we would all be Gandhians or Martin-Kingians. Said otherwise: Jezus is just a person, not the son of god.

C. S. Lewis answered this very concisely and clearly in his "trilemma", which I paraphrase: Jesus claimed to be God. Therefore there are three possibilities:
(1) He was right. Obvious conclusion.
(2) He was lying. Why then did he condemn lying?
(3) He was insane. Yet he doesn't appear to be insane in any other respects.

OK, that's not a particularly well-crafted response. For a much better explanation, see www.tektonics.org/tekton_01_03_01.html (or go to Google, type "trilemma" and hit "I'm feeling lucky!", which is how I found that site).

therealdopefish
Vortininja
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(8/20/02 9:43 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Humans created a god, not god created humans.
Christianity is an utopia. They have the image that if everybody is nice to each other it'll be just like heaven. Heaven is an utopia as well. It's impossible to suit everyone in heaven, so there can't be heaven.

Animals don't have opinions because they don't have a brain like human. That doesn't make humans superior. Animals have other good properties. Humans are greedy animals who thinks a god helps them if they have some little problems(read that in the Dolphin topic in the Misc section).

Children still take the same religion as their parents. I've never heard of people becoming a muslim, even though their parents are Christians. Parents baptize their child as a baby before these kids can even have their own opinion. I already wrote a letter to the church if I could get rid of being a "member" of the church and they say it's impossible(English ain't my first language so it's hard for me to translate this sentence in a proper one). Then how could I get rid of Christianity? Is this what we call democracy and freedom of religion?

Quote:

According to the Bible, mankind was appointed by God to govern the animals.

Yeah, I know this, but that still means humans are superior to animals. If that's so, why were there more than million of years where animals were just living on earth without humankind? Animals don't need humans to survive. In the time the bible was written nobody knew anything of dinosaurs etc. There's nothing about dinosaurs in the bible as well, so it's easy to conclude the bible is a book written in that time with their point of view. That point of view is dated and therefore the bible is dated. Humans are just like every other animal.

Everybody would claim Jezus to be insane if he appeared on earth in this time. Things which weren't insane 2000 years ago are insane right now. If I keep repeating to a person(which Maria did. Well 'keep repeating' is a bit exaggerating) that he is the son of god, he thinks he is the son of god.

I don't believe in after-life. Everything on earth has a start and ending, so why not life? I know it's hard to swallow but our only reason is to be the start for new life.
Not believing in after-life has the advantage that you actually want to do something in life. I always do at least something. I won't kill anyone, because everybody only live once. I would never commit suicide, no matter how bad I feel. So I wouldn't fly with an airplane into a skyscraper. So there's no way you can brainwash me in any way. Just because I don't believe in god and after-life.

BTW May be it has to do I'm Dutch.

adurdin
Wormouth
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:

Christianity is an utopia. They have the image that if everybody is nice to each other it'll be just like heaven.

I'm afraid your ideas of Christianity are up the creek; I don't blame you -- that is the sort of idea one often gets from the media and things some churches say.

Quote:

Heaven is an utopia as well. It's impossible to suit everyone in heaven, so there can't be heaven.

I'm sorry, I can't follow your reasoning here -- can you expand on this a bit?

Quote:

Parents baptize their child as a baby before these kids can even have their own opinion. I already wrote a letter to the church if I could get rid of being a "member" of the church and they say it's impossible. Then how could I get rid of Christianity?

Baptism, whether as a child or an adult, does nothing to make one a Christian. It is (for an adult) symbolic of the "washing away" of sin.
Frankly, if you don't believe in Christ, that is, in his divinity, death, and resurrection, then you're not a Christian, no matter what someone poured on your head when you were a baby.

Quote:

Is this what we call democracy and freedom of religion?

I fail to see what this has to do with democracy or the common notion of freedom of religion, which is usually meant to mean freedom from state interference in one's religion. If I wanted to start my own "Church of something-or-other", I could call anyone I wanted members of it - it wouldn't affect their freedom of religion, though it might get me a punch in the nose.

Quote:

If that's so, why were there more than million of years where animals were just living on earth without humankind? Animals don't need humans to survive.

Being in a position of authority over something is not the same as that something being dependent on one in any way. For example, I am under the authority of the Australian Government -- but I don't need the government to survive (although currently I am relying on a government student pension).
As for the millions of years, much more is said on that than the available evidence warrants. I would say there is as much evidence that the Earth is NOT millions of years old as ther is evidence that it IS millions of years old. And there are many data which could easily be interpreted to support either position, depending on one's initial assumptions.

Quote:

In the time the bible was written nobody knew anything of dinosaurs etc. There's nothing about dinosaurs in the bible as well,

There are a few references to large beasts which are often suggested to be a kind of dinosaur. Of course, many animals that would have been known to people of those times are not mentioned either: the Bible was not a bestiary (though of course, Cho'gall, this does not at all prove that the writers of the Bible were familiar with dinosaurs).
(Obviously the word "dinosaur" itself is not used, being a recent coinage).

Quote:

so it's easy to conclude the bible is a book written in that time with their point of view. That point of view is dated and therefore the bible is dated.

I'd like to question your assumption here that "their point of view" is dated. What basis do you have for this?

Quote:

Everybody would claim Jezus to be insane if he appeared on earth in this time. Things which weren't insane 2000 years ago are insane right now.

What? Insanity is a mental condition, which was exactly the same 2000 years ago (although at that time they didn't have the same understanding of the medical aspects of insanity that we do).
Sorry, I just can't resist misquoting Lord of the Rings: "Insanity has not changed since yesterday, nor is it one thing among Jews and another among other men"

Quote:

If I keep repeating to a person(which Maria did. Well 'keep repeating' is a bit exaggerating) that he is the son of god, he thinks he is the son of god.

Leaving out the fact that he is likely not to understand what you mean by "the son of god", he may end up believing it. Regardless of that, the idea that Jesus was the son of God did by no means originate with his parents. See Luke 2:41-50.

Quote:

Not believing in after-life has the advantage that you actually want to do something in life. I always do at least something.

Why? If this life is all there is, what point is there in doing anything? What lasting value can there be in anything?

Quote:

So there's no way you can brainwash me in any way. Just because I don't believe in god and after-life.

I'm not entirely certain whether you mean "Because I don't believe in a god or an after-life, there's no way I can be brainwashed", or "YOU can't brainwash me because I don't believe in this stuff"; though I suspect the former.

If someone tells you something enough times that you believe it, you've been brainwashed -- even if what they tell you is true. For example, you believe that the Earth is millions of years old: I expect you've been brainwashed (i.e. taught) to think that, in other words, that you haven't taken any steps to verify that belief yourself. Non-belief in god doesn't save you from brainwashing, it would only save you from being brainwashed into belief in god.

Quote:

BTW May be it has to do I'm Dutch.

As you mentioned, English isn't your first language. If because of this you have difficulty understanding anything I've written above, just ask me to explain again and I'll do my best.

You know that book I mentioned in my last post, "The Hiding Place" by Corrie Ten Boom? Try reading it -- it's not particularly arduous. It was written by a Dutch person, so you should have the advantage of at least having a better idea of the geography than I did

.
To be fair, in exchange I'll offer to read any book you suggest to me.

(And once again I've written a really long post...)

ManderKeen
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Christianity, as any other religion and their Gods, have been created as an explanation to eg. different forces of nature, when people didn't understand them.

Djaser
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Re: How many people here are religious?

It's impssible to suit everyone in Heaven.

Well I can follow him here: Respected forum meber the Heaven isn't a house!!!! It's created by God and isn't in this Universe so thing are really different there even space (duuh).

Djaser
Vortininja
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(8/20/02 2:16 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

It's impossible to suit everyone in Heaven

Well I can follow him: Most respected forum meber, Heaven isn't a house (duuh). God created Heaven (I think not in space) he didn't build it Heaven doen't exist of space.

Because a bug in the forum I've posted this reply twice sorry

Edited by: Djaser at: 8/20/02 2:21:16 pm

therealdopefish
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Why does everyone which is pro-religious taken his information from the Bible? YOu guys don't use any other information source than the Bible and Books about the Bible.

An utopia is a dream world. Dream worlds don't exist. Heaven is a dream world, so heaven is an utopia.
Could you please give some evidence that the earth isn't millions of years old? No you can't.
I can't think of large beasts written in the Bible. Cyclops, Giants etc are all from the Greek and Roman Mythology, not Christianity.
Those don't look like Dinosaurs(yeah, I know the word Dinosaur didn't exist in the time the Bible was written).

Their point of view is dated, because many years later, they find more information, became smarter. New inventions came. This has effect on the point of view. Ever seen the movie "the Net"? Their point of view is dated as computers have changed dramatically.

Insanity changes within the years. If I would be sent 1000 years ago and behave just like I do now, then they would think I'm insane. The same thing goes viceversa. Believing in witchcraft is normal in the Middle Ages, but if you stil believe in witchcraft people think you're insane.

Maria thought she had a dream(I thought it was a dream) that her child would be the son of god. She probably would have told him this many times, when he was just a kid. That isn't written in the bible. For as long as I know not much is written about Jezus' child-life. The same thing happened in World War II. German mothers told their son/daughter that they're superior to other races. The results were awful as we all know it.

I'd rather spend my time helping/assisting other people or do something for myself then thinking if there's an afterlife. I can live with the thought that we are insignificant and have no importance.

The earth is more than millions of years old. There are so many evidences, so you can't deny it. That has nothing to do with brain-washing. If there weren't any evidences I wouldn't automatically say it's true.

The fact I said I was Dutch has to do with the fact that every other land thinks we're so tolerant. Holland is in fact the land where religion is probably one of the the most unimportant things. Personally I don't think Dutch people are very tolerant, but that they don't take care about other people and just let them be. I do understand your arguments. I'm pretty good in reading English. I'm actually pretty awful in discussions(even in Dutch).

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 8/21/02 10:34:19 am

ManderKeen
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
Why? If this life is all there is, what point is there in doing anything? What lasting value can there be in anything?

Your post clearly indicates that you live only to prepare for afterlife, although I don't you mean't it that way.
The idea of an afterlife was born with people's fear of death. I pity those fools who spend their life preparing for an afterlife(happends in some religions), because their ancestors had this fear.

Quote:
I'd rather spend my time helping/assisting other people or do something for myself then thinking if there's an afterlife. I can live with the thought that we are insignificant and have no importance.

I agree. As I'm 100% on the scientific side, I don't believe anyone has a soul, which could 'move on'. I believe that one's intelligence, personality etc. exists because of the immensive amounts of those brain-cells co-operating with eachother.

therealdopefish
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Finally someone who agrees with me. I already wanted to stop and concentrate on RKP3.
Let's say there really is no after-life. Then you must really have had a pity life if you prepared for something there ain't is.
Believing in after-life is only a good way to feel happier after death of a dear person. I still think that's where the idea of after-life comes from which has been changed within the years(just like the evolution) into belief.

The Upravlenie
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I couldn't resist...

Quote:
The same thing happened in World War II. German mothers told their son/daughter that they're superior to other races. The results were awful as we all know it.

The result of evolutionary thinking...

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The earth is more than millions of years old. There are so many evidences, so you can't deny it. That has nothing to do with brain-washing. If there weren't any evidences I wouldn't automatically say it's true.

What evidence?

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I agree. As I'm 100% on the scientific side -ManderKeen

Except for evolution, of course...

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." -George Gobol.

KeenEmpire
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
These people believe in God, because their parent believe in God, whose parents believe in god, etc.(that's reality). My Grandpa was a pretty extreme Christian and I respected him, but that doesn't make me a Christian because he is.

Agred.

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It would be more accurate to say it is about the impossibility of living a good human life (though that is not the whole of it, of course - otherwise how depressing it would be)

In other words, trying to get the person born poor not to rebel.

Quote:
No-one is a Christian because their parents (or other relatives) are. That would be like saying I'm an astronomer because my dad has a PhD in astrophysics -- I might have become interested in astronomy and learned a lot about it because of him, but I would be an astronomer because of what I learned etc.

In astronomy you actually have to learn, and you can choose to learn something else, or not take astronomy anytime. In religion it is following things so basic that, by the time you grow up, it's so deeply embedded in you that you can't forget.

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The claim that humans are "superior" to animals is not based on any innate "good properties", but rather on a delegated position. According to the Bible, mankind was appointed by God to govern the animals.

If the bible is false, the egotisticality of this gets very obvious...

As it is, we are "delegated" only because of our power, a.k.a. superiority, caused by "good properties" i.e. intelligence. If we were to try to rule the animal kingdom with a bunch of sticks and stones, we wouldn't very much succeed. In other words, "apponted" and "good properties" are the same thing. We rule only because of power.

Quote:
C. S. Lewis answered this very concisely and clearly in his "trilemma", which I paraphrase: Jesus claimed to be God. Therefore there are three possibilities:
(1) He was right. Obvious conclusion.
(2) He was lying. Why then did he condemn lying?
(3) He was insane. Yet he doesn't appear to be insane in any other respects.

2. Because he's a hypocrite.
3. Temporary insanity in some subjects. I've had it too.

(Of course, I'm not saying that either of them are true.)

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It's impossible to suit everyone in heaven, so there can't be heaven.

Very wrong. The universe is infinite in size.

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I already wrote a letter to the church if I could get rid of being a "member" of the church and they say it's impossible(English ain't my first language so it's hard for me to translate this sentence in a proper one).

You can get yourself excommunicated, or simply don't bother. The name is sitting there, but make nothing done with the name.

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Not believing in after-life has the advantage that you actually want to do something in life. I always do at least something. I won't kill anyone, because everybody only live once. I would never commit suicide, no matter how bad I feel. So I wouldn't fly with an airplane into a skyscraper. So there's no way you can brainwash me in any way. Just because I don't believe in god and after-life.

BTW May be it has to do I'm Dutch.

1) No. The true feeling is so strong that no amount of moral resistance can compell you not to do it.
2) No. Racism.

Quote:
I'm afraid your ideas of Christianity are up the creek; I don't blame you -- that is the sort of idea one often gets from the media and things some churches say.

What is heaven besides a Utopia? If it isn't true, what is Christianity besides something that propogandizes people into allowing themselves to suffer?

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I'm sorry, I can't follow your reasoning here -- can you expand on this a bit?

Non sequiter. Don't bother.

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I'd like to question your assumption here that "their point of view" is dated. What basis do you have for this?

Dinosaurs.

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Why? If this life is all there is, what point is there in doing anything? What lasting value can there be in anything?

1) For society, and other people's lives (oh yeah...they don't mean anything either.....)
2) To understand as much as you can.
3) To get rich? Happy?
4) Reproduction

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Dream worlds don't exist.

Proof, please.

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If I would be sent 1000 years ago and behave just like I do now, then they would think I'm insane.

They would think you're insane because they don't understand you. Perhaps you think Jesus as insane for that same reason.

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The result of evolutionary thinking...

No, the result of creationism thinking. They think they were created to be better than others, it has nothing to do with evolution.

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Except for evolution, of course...

Creationism is a science, or I'm misinterpreting, or I'm off my rocker.

Edited by: Keen Second Universal Empire at: 8/14/21 6:32:58 am

therealdopefish
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Don't know any evidences on how old the earth is. The number of radiation in the ground can be measured and with the number of radiation you can calculate the age of the ground. Learned this on school.

WWII wasn't caused by thinking of being evolved, but brainwashing. Hitler brainwashed the German population. In fact you can't speak of a better evolution. For example I'm pretty intelligent(probably get some bad comments about this, so don't take this too seriously) and pretty fast with running and cycling. Therefore my legs and brain are more evolved. On the other side someone else might be much stronger and has better reaction time. Time would tell who would adapt best in the environment. Even disabled people are evolved, only they seem to have more problem adapting with the environment.

KeenEmpire
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:
The number of radiation in the ground

Wait...in the ground? I can't recall any such thing.

I think one of the proofs has something to do with the moon, but I'm not sure.

Edited by: Keen Second Universal Empire at: 8/14/21 6:32:58 am

adurdin
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:

------------------------------------------------------------ It would be more accurate to say it is about the impossibility of living a good human life (though that is not the whole of it, of course - otherwise how depressing it would be)
------------------------------------------------------------

In other words, trying to get the person born poor not to rebel.

What? I don't follow you.

Quote:

In astronomy you actually have to learn, and you can choose to learn something else, or not take astronomy anytime. In religion it is following things so basic that, by the time you grow up, it's so deeply embedded in you that you can't forget.

The same is true of *anything* that one learns when one is young.

Quote:

------------------------------------------------------------ C. S. Lewis answered this very concisely and clearly in his "trilemma", which I paraphrase: Jesus claimed to be God. Therefore there are three possibilities:
(1) He was right. Obvious conclusion.
(2) He was lying. Why then did he condemn lying?
(3) He was insane. Yet he doesn't appear to be insane in any other respects.
------------------------------------------------------------

2. Because he's a hypocrite.
3. Temporary insanity in some subjects. I've had it too.

Then if he was a hypocrite, why did was he willing to die for his lies?

Even temporary insanity is not an isolated psychological condition -- there will be other symptoms of the same problem that are manifest.

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Very wrong. The universe is infinite in size.

That's presuming an awful lot. On what do you base this?

Quote:

------------------------------------------------------------ I'm afraid your ideas of Christianity are up the creek; I don't blame you -- that is the sort of idea one often gets from the media and things some churches say.
------------------------------------------------------------

What is heaven besides a Utopia? If it isn't true, what is Christianity besides something that propogandizes people into allowing themselves to suffer?

If it isn't true, then you can say heaven's a Utopia -- the premise should be stated. Even if it's false and brainwashes people into allowing themselves to suffer, if they have joy in spite of their suffering, what's wrong with it?

BTW, KeenEmpire, I like the way you're sitting in the middle and arguing against both sides

-- it makes the argument not an "Us vs Them" thing.

adurdin
Wormouth
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:

------------------------------------------------------------ The number of radiation in the ground
------------------------------------------------------------

Wait...in the ground? I can't recall any such thing.

I think one of the proofs has something to do with the moon, but I'm not sure.

There are various measurements based on radioactive decay, some in rock (I think), but more (and considered more reliable) in organic remains. These generally yield results in the millions-billions of years range, based on an extrapolation from the current rate of decay.

The thing about the moon is that it is currently receding from the earth at a slow rate. People have extrapolated backward from this to conclude that the Earth couldn't be more than ~10000 years old, or else the moon would have been stuck in the Earth.

The problem with both of these, is that they are taking a miniscule (or in the case of the radioactive dating) insignificantly small sample and extrapolating to an enormous extent. This is just statistically unsound -- to take a sample range of, say, 100 years at best, and extrapolate that 10,000% (for the moon) or 1,000,000,000% (for the radioactive decay) is totally unsupportable.

Djaser
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Therearealldopefish I don't know what kind of friends you have but I have a friend who has a chain with a devil sign. I souldn't do that but I respect that and she respects me. I also have a punk friends also not a very Christian person but he alos respects and understant me. Am I strange Christian or are you just a strange Hollander?

TheOmegamatic
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Well, I am religious... Let's just say I'm a wannabe satanist...

KeenEmpire
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:
What? I don't follow you.

Rant. Just ignore it.

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The same is true of *anything* that one learns when one is young.

No, that would be like the father telling the son propaganda about astronomy, and how good it is, since he was young, basing it on an afterlife (astronomer's heaven). Not to mention all the other people who believe in that religion.

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Then if he was a hypocrite, why did was he willing to die for his lies?

No [mere speculation]it may have been several reasons, including that he was telling the truth about everything except that he was the son of God (in which case he would go to hell...er...I'll have to revise that later), or it might be one in which (and this can be caused by the case of insanity) he doesn't believe in God, and does it all for his personal glory, and dies because he wants to be remembered for many thousands of years to come (that's where the insanity comes in). Personally, I wouldn't know about it, since I don't have these suicidal desires, but yeah...[/mere speculation]

Quote:
Even temporary insanity is not an isolated psychological condition -- there will be other symptoms of the same problem that are manifest.

Officially it is (or not), his case could have varied (as did mine, for the most part no one noticed symtoms outside of my philosophy thinking, and for Christ, reverance (+2000 years) is a good thing to keep observers from jotting it down).

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That's presuming an awful lot. On what do you base this?

Whoops! I've triggered the inconsistancy alarm! Darnit, caught! Ding ding ding.

Well,I'll add it to my list of things to think about. Looks like I've been weirded out by the religion called "science."

Quote:
If it isn't true, then you can say heaven's a Utopia -- the premise should be stated. Even if it's false and brainwashes people into allowing themselves to suffer, if they have joy in spite of their suffering, what's wrong with it?

Hmm, I guess I've never thought of it that way...........I mean, it does bring happiness to this world...

No. What is wrong about it is that it slows down development. To put a long story short, it discourages people trying to gain equality (for real, and not just for a promise of an afterlife) and makes them end up doing nothing. Granted, laziness is a big issue there, and progress probably will be very slow anyway, but Christianity is encouraging the lack of progress, and it might be that that keeps people on the edge of the brink "Aah, don't bother, I'll delay it some, Heaven's a good place anyway..." What would you rather have: an happiness out of knowledge or ignorance?

Thanks, I can't really say anything for your last post though

Edited by: Keen Second Universal Empire at: 8/14/21 6:32:58 am

adurdin
Wormouth
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:

No, that would be like the father telling the son propaganda about astronomy, and how good it is, since he was young, basing it on an afterlife (astronomer's heaven). Not to mention all the other people who believe in that religion.

(I based what I said on the claim I thought you were making that early teaching about religion became so deeply imbedded that one could not forget it.)

Well, when I learned some stuff about astronomy, I was far from being critical enough to determine for myself the truth of what I was taught regarding it, so in that regard it was equivalent to propaganda. Even now I doubt if I would be able to determine, say, the existence or behaviour of quasars and pulsars; I'd have to resort to reading books, which would definitely be second-hand information.

(As an aside, primary school maths, and much of high-school maths is the teaching of propaganda; one is merely taught that it is so. It is not until much later (if ever) that one learns the logical premises on which mathematics is based, and the reasoning that lies behind basic maths.)

Hmm... I seem to have gone off the track a bit, bogged down by the word "propaganda".

Quote:

No. What is wrong about it is that it slows down development. To put a long story short, it discourages people trying to gain equality (for real, and not just for a promise of an afterlife) and makes them end up doing nothing. Granted, laziness is a big issue there, and progress probably will be very slow anyway, but Christianity is encouraging the lack of progress, and it might be that that keeps people on the edge of the brink "Aah, don't bother, I'll delay it some, Heaven's a good place anyway..." What would you rather have: an happiness out of knowledge or ignorance?

Slows down what sort of development? Personal or general? Spiritual, biological, social, scientific, or intellectual? Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, ...

What kind of equality?

KeenEmpire
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:
Well, when I learned some stuff about astronomy, I was far from being critical enough to determine for myself the truth of what I was taught regarding it, so in that regard it was equivalent to propaganda. Even now I doubt if I would be able to determine, say, the existence or behaviour of quasars and pulsars; I'd have to resort to reading books, which would definitely be second-hand information.

That's something weird about my argument. If you learnt astronomy with quasars and all that in some way in a book, and then you learn it later when quasars are reported to be a different thing, you'd probably believe it, unless you're madly devoted to the first report. What's key to that it mad devotion. Religion is not science, it is put on faith that is not common sense (postulates) such as, "there is a God", for one. When something like that big leap is put into a postulate, it's going to take faith to believe it, just as you might put faith in that first article, and not believe anything in the second, that's what I mean about propaganda.

Quote:
(As an aside, primary school maths, and much of high-school maths is the teaching of propaganda; one is merely taught that it is so. It is not until much later (if ever) that one learns the logical premises on which mathematics is based, and the reasoning that lies behind basic maths.)

Believe it or not, I didn't understand math until they explained it, only the postulate-level things (how to divide, multiply, etc.)

Quote:
Slows down what sort of development? Personal or general? Spiritual, biological, social, scientific, or intellectual? Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, ...
What kind of equality?

Social (though it helps in a second way), economic (though that is hard to deal with), scientific, governmental (though that isn't a big problem now, with exceptions).

What kind of equality? There are more, but the only one I can think of right now is the equality of opportunity to do things.

A pessimisticism of your opinion is that you say that, if there is no afterlife, life would not be worth living. Come, can we not just live our life for the sake of living? Maybe God is simply something we made up to try to make life more worth it (as you've said about happiness). But as usual I'm not saying anything.

Edited by: Keen Second Universal Empire at: 8/14/21 6:32:58 am

therealdopefish
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Re: I couldn't resist...

I might have not been very clear about the evidence of the earth being more than million years old. Everything is radioactive. Not much, but it still is. Well because of erosion you'll get more layers over the old ground. While being under the ground the sand still loses radioactivity, but doesn't get radiation back from the air. If I measure the radioactivity of the sand under the ground I can calculate how long it is under the ground.
Sorry, have to leave this discussion for one week(holiday). But I'll be back!

Hanno Embregts
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Re: I couldn't resist...

But what about all these stories of people who have been healed? You can't tell me that's co-incedence. God exists, and he reveals himself by doing miracles all over the world! And don't say 'why doesn't He stop the wars' because He gave us humans an own mind. We can make our own choices and if Bush chooses to declare war, than God won't do anything to stop it.
Guys, you'd better believe in Jesus. He gives eternal life! Never thought 'life sucks?'(on earth) Pain, suffering etc... When it's all over, you'll live a perfect life in heaven.

'When it's all over you will see how your life was meant to be.'
- The World Wide Message Tribe

"Do or do not, there is no try."
-- Yoda

therealdopefish
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Because of one simple reason: I don't believe in an Utopia. The description of Heaven is equal to the description of an Utopia.
In fairy tales you can find miracles. Fairy tales have never happened in real life. For example if you check the original (in Hebrew language) Bible the translation of Jezus walking on the water could have been a wrong translation. That also includes more miracles written in the Bible. Stories get exaggerated within the years as well.
Eternal life is a punishment! You really have no idea how long eternity is. Within 6000-7000 years you've probably done everything and everything has become boring. Then what should you do with your eternal life?
Why don't you just live in your dream world, so I can live in the real world?
The idea of humankind of believing in God comes from the prehistory. We didn't know what lightning was and rain etc., so we created a fictive person who did do all this. Get rid of this stupid idea. Be a bit more down-to-earth!

BTW: You think there's a heaven which makes it easier for you to become a Kamikazi-pilot and think you did do the right thing. Without any religion there would be no September the 11th Assault.

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 8/30/02 10:50:11 am

KeenEmpire
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Well, eternal life is a punishment, I suppose. But give me science equipment, a good science education, and I will happily spend eternity discovering stuff about the universe and other universes.

__________

"...And during the 'DemOps' event, Keen set the series of events leading to the formation of the Second Universal Empire That Ever Existed...

...That Empire, with an economy based on capitalism, and yet not quite, was..."

-The Summerizer's Guide to the Universe, Day Edition; Last updated 8/14/2021.

ceilick
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Re: How many people here are religious?

i am a christian.

I do not agree that Heaven is a punishment. Heaven is beyond imagine. Living with a God that loves you forever is not a punishment.

The Upravlenie
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Re: I couldn't resist...

KeenEmpire, there is more to this universe than the physical. There are thing science cannot explain. Where did numbers come from if the universe was created by chance? What is a 3? Is it an actual physical thing? Why is the universe so predictable, so uniform? We have minds. Why do we like music and have the ability to make decisions?

Ceilick: I am also a Christian

"Public opinion is for the government what a topographical map is for an army command in time of war."

Edited by: The Upravlenie at: 9/10/02 4:07:39 am

adurdin
Wormouth
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Re: I couldn't resist...

therealdopefish wrote:

Quote:

The idea of humankind of believing in God comes from the prehistory. We didn't know what lightning was and rain etc., so we created a fictive person who did do all this. Get rid of this stupid idea. Be a bit more down-to-earth!

BTW: You think there's a heaven which makes it easier for you to become a Kamikazi-pilot and think you did do the right thing. Without any religion there would be no September the 11th Assault.

First: if you want to argue against something, make sure you know it. The Bible does not explain God as someone who makes lightning, rain, etc. You could perhaps argue that God was a fictive person made up to explain the existence of the universe and also to explain serendipity & coincidences, but what you said is totally beside the point at issue.

As far as the WTC attack goes, the political & economic reasons for it were far greater than the religious reasons. And you don't need to be religious to consider suicide attacks: you only need to be fanatical.

The Upravlenie wrote:

Quote:

Where did numbers come from if the universe was created by chance? What is a 3? Is it an actual physical thing?

Numbers and mathematics are essentially a model that we use for manipulating the universe. As such, a "3" is one of the following:
-A definition of a certain amount of something
-A symbol representing such an amount
-A particular representation of such a symbol (i.e. different fonts have different "3"s)
And other definitions are possible. So you need to define better what you mean by "what is a 3?"

baabis
Gannalech
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:
First: if you want to argue against something, make sure you know it. The Bible does not explain God as someone who makes lightning, rain, etc. You could perhaps argue that God was a fictive person made up to explain the existence of the universe and also to explain serendipity & coincidences, but what you said is totally beside the point at issue.

I agree with theRealDopeFish. Andrew, you are right about the bible not explaining god as that. But, and this is a big but, in a lot of the earlier religions (practiced by eg. ancient egyptians, vikings, chinese, indians, finnish people etc.) god or gods were explained as lightning-making(as a term of speech). And I think that christianity, among with the other present religions has(I know this is going to piss people off :evil

) evolved from those earlier religions.

Djaser
Vortininja
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Re: I couldn't resist...

There is a difference between these old believes and the Jews, Christians, Islam, and Buddhists. Let's take the Jews they are the oldest of these believes. The Jews believe does not explain how thing happen. I know there are some exceptions like the rainbow and perhaps creation. but if you read the Torah you will find almost only wisdom and almost no explanations about how thing happen in nature. Remember that the Jews believe isn't compared to that of the Egyptians....... However the Jews have lived (and there is no scientist who doubt this) a long time in Egypt and the only thing compared to them is some poetry. You don't piss me of it's your opinion and I respect that. But of Christians, Jews, ect are wrong or not their believe is not a simply nature- faith....

The Upravlenie
Vortininja
Posts: 200
(9/11/02 4:20 am)
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Quote:
Numbers and mathematics are essentially a model that we use for manipulating the universe. As such, a "3" is one of the following:
-A definition of a certain amount of something
-A symbol representing such an amount
-A particular representation of such a symbol (i.e. different fonts have different "3"s)
And other definitions are possible. So you need to define better what you mean by "what is a 3?"

Okay. So they aren't a physical thing? If you write a number on a chalkboard and erase it, you haven't destroyed a number, correct?

"Public opinion is for the government what a topographical map is for an army command in time of war."

adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 554
(9/11/02 8:06 am)
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Nope. All you've destroyed is the symbol representing the number. A number cannot be destroyed or created; it is just a concept.

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 374
(9/11/02 1:07 pm)
203.151.8.41
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Sigh, no duh science hasn't explained them. If science had explained everything, there'd be no point in our trying to discover more.

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 125
(9/11/02 6:19 pm)
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Uhm.. KeenEmpire... you don't get bored in Heaven, everything's good up there. And I would never do suicide just to come in Heaven, I believe I wouldn't come in there if I did commit suicide.

And all this 'science' stuff. Think again. Who gave you the ability to discover science? You can't tell me the human race just appeared out of thin air.

P.S. You must be Dutch, Keen Empire! So am I!

"Do or do not, there is no try."
-- Yoda

Djaser
Vortininja
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(9/11/02 6:42 pm)
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Re: I couldn't resist...

Immortality is indeed a punishment. An eternal life with God is different, it is not earth it is heaven. Nobody can say if you will like it or not.......

By the way I'm Dutch..........

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

Edited by: Djaser at: 9/11/02 8:03:34 pm

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 126
(9/12/02 10:18 am)
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Djaser is right!

Djaser is right, immortality is a punishment, if it's on earth. you'll see all kinds of disasters, sad things... Thank God heaven is abandoned of all those...

Djaser
Vortininja
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(9/12/02 2:53 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

BTW: You think there's a heaven which makes it easier for you to become a Kamikazi-pilot and think you did do the right thing. Without any religion there would be no September the 11th Assault.

Therearealldopefish I've tolld you twice that there are always more reasons for this kind of things. Like in Israel. If you don't agree with me tell me than we could talk about it, if you do stop saying this. There are many things we wouldn't have without relegion, what I've also tolld before.........

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 560
(9/12/02 10:14 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

For example, you could argue that without religion, we would never have had Commander Keen...

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 130
(9/13/02 8:21 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

??? Could you please explain that, adurdin???

"Tell me mister Deadman? Do you have the answer? How you can get to heaven? Do you have the answer?
Hey mister Deadman? I'll tell you if you wanna know, how you can get to heaven: believe in I Jah Jah son..."
-- P.O.D.

adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 564
(9/14/02 4:00 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Was hoping someone would ask that...

1. Commander Keen is American, and the product of (mostly*) American culture.

2. Many of the original settlers of America went there to avoid being persecuted for their religion.

Q. E. D.

* With the exception of H2G2 and a few other British references

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 379
(9/14/02 8:52 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

That is a redundant argument. If smaller things hadn't happened, if the Civil war haven't happened, then quite possibly there would be no Commander Keen, or at least it would not be recognized as Commander Keen. If something major had happened or not happened in history, Tom Hall, or John Romeo, or one of them would not have been living in the place they were when they first met each other, and nothing would have been created out of that. It is not necessarily religion.

But at the same time, there is nothing to compare it to. Even if America had been settled 200 years late, those same people could still coincidencially come together and made Keen. Or if the Civil War hadn't happened. Or anything. And simultaneously, you don't know whether something "better" would have come out of game programmers in random meetings, should those things have happened or not. This does not have a control variable, and without a control variable, supposition is useless.

P.S.: I have no idea what "redundant" means. I hope I've used it in the right context

therealdopefish
Vortininja
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(9/14/02 1:13 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

I'm an atheist, but that doesn't make me pro-science for 100%. Things like meters, numbers, characters are all made by humankind, just like the idea a God. But science brought us much further than than religion ever did. Without science we would still be farmers, carpenters, etc. We would still be credulous(some of you still are credulous). If I ask a Christian if he would still be Christian if his parents were Muslims instead of Christians, then about 99,99% would say no. The other 0,01% just deny it. They're just imitating their parents. Imitating someone would make me feel very insignificant(I always have some very innovative ideas, which is one my good points).

Children believe in Santa Clause(Here in Holland, they believe in Sinterklaas. Santa Clause is actually a rip off of Sinterklaas). Kids sometimes hesitate if Santa exists or not. If you say to them that Santa Clause does not exist they knew it all the time but didn't realised it. The same goes for God. But instead of praying for presents you pray that nothing should go wrong in your life.

Without religion no Commander Keen? You probably are kidding, right? If there was no Commander Keen we would probably not miss him, right?

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 9/14/02 1:15:30 pm

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
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(9/14/02 5:17 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Well, that's another point, yes. If there were no Commander Keen in the first place, we wouldn't miss him.

Djaser
Vortininja
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(9/14/02 6:17 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

(some of you still are credulous).

I'll ignore that

If I ask a child if he would believe that 1+1=2 if his parents believe that 1+1=3 instead of 1+1=2, then about 99,99% would say no. The other 0,01% just deny it. They're just imitating their parents.

They're just imitating their parents.

Mmmh but you're immitating yourself you keep repeating your own points :lol

........

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

Djaser
Vortininja
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(9/15/02 7:40 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

but that doesn't make me pro-science for 100%. Things like meters, numbers, characters are all made by humankind,

Good neither am I. It is good to see that you think about this kind of things. But it is the same with Christians when they grow up there parents learned them about God and ok they are immitating. But is the same with atheists they also immitate everything they learned from their parents. Later they start thinking about what they have learned both Christians and atheists. I really can't see any difference.

But science brought us much further than than religion ever did. Without science we would still be farmers, carpenters, etc.

Did it? Remember that the first scientists were believers (Greeks) and later Christians. Science was found by believers!

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 278
(9/15/02 11:05 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

So what you're saying is false.
The first scientists were hesitating about religion being true. The big difference between science and religion is that science examines things first before they make a conclusion(otherwise it's called a theory). Religion just gambles and makes a "believable" story how it happened. Science hasn't been important in humankind until the late 19th century/beginning 20th century. That's when we finally made some progress, like, better wealth, equality of humankind, better medical equipment, break-through of traditions(divorces, woman emancipation, freedom of religion were finally allowed). Believe that this would not have happened without science.

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 9/15/02 11:07:25 am

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
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(9/15/02 11:40 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Well, there are ways to explain that 1+1=3. It's only a postulate that it =2. Are you in the Book Club?

Well, I'm not sure about your definition of theory, but I realized I forgot it just after my Biology test, so I can't correct you there.

Djaser
Vortininja
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(9/15/02 11:48 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

OK, then how would you be able to explain that 1+1=3? There's no logic in that.
Atheism is not a religion, but a disbelief. I could believe everything, like believing in ghosts or that Paris is located in China or that Jezus is still alive or whatever.

Now you underdstand me 1+1=3 is not logic it is a believe no matter or it is true or not. This is just a Theory to show that everyone immitates his parents and other peopele in someway.

The first scientists were hesitating about religion being true.

Why do you say this it is not true, just have a look at Pythagoras.

Science hasn't been important in humankind until the late 19th century/beginning 20th century.

Just have a little look at the ancient Greeks....

(divorces, woman emancipation, freedom of religion were finally allowed).

About woman emancipation the bible is not against this I can give you a bible story about it if you want (don't think you want

)

Believe that this would not have happened without science.

Again science was found by believers..............

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 568
(9/15/02 12:19 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:

That's when we finally made some progress, like, better wealth, equality of humankind, better medical equipment, break-through of traditions(divorces, woman emancipation, freedom of religion were finally allowed).

You're kidding, aren't you?
If not:

Certainly attaining these goals would be progress: but you need to demonstrate that it is worthwhile progress. Then you need to demonstrate that we have made significant progress towards these goals. Finally you need to show that this was done because of the rise of science. Just stating things as if they were facts (as you have done) is not a scientific way of doing things

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 384
(9/16/02 10:39 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
better wealth

For obvious reasons, you couldn't increase the world's amount of resources by praying. I think that is classified as "science," as it's independent of religion, but maybe not?

Quote:
quality of humankind

Increased lifespan, brought out by better nutrition from better farming processes (science), and better medicines (science), and etc.

Quote:
better medical equipment

Fairly obvious, if you go to a hospital and see all the machines.

Quote:
break-through of traditions(divorces, woman emancipation, freedom of religion were finally allowed).

Well, I'm not very sure about divorces (since wasn't it Henry the somethingth who formed the English Church so he could get the divorce?), but women emancipation was definitely an idea formed by stuff like the enlightenment, and actually going against religious ideas at the time. (Or am I confusing it with something else?) Freedom of religion, while I think it's stated in the Bible and some other sources to just let 'em be, never really got going for a long, long time. People were still slaughtering each other, and discriminating (and they still are). What allowed the good stuff (actual freedom of religion) to happen was the establishment of society, and universal laws. These are pretty much enlightenment ideas going into motion, and you could also argue that stuff like networking (instant communication) gave big rise to this (although of course, the old colonizers in America didn't need them to write the Declaration of Independence, you might argue that way too).

Edit: Er, declaration of independence.... Declaration of Rights of Humans...or forget it. I'm doing seriously bad if I've forgotten history over just one week.

Edited by: KeenEmpire at: 9/16/02 10:41:16 am

Djaser
Vortininja
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(9/16/02 4:04 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

but women emancipation was definitely an idea formed by stuff like the enlightenment, and actually going against religious ideas at the time. (Or am I confusing it with something else?)

Yes and no: the was in for woman emancipation but medieval Christians just ignored it..............

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 279
(9/16/02 5:06 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Thank's to science we know we shouldn't do and believe everything written in the Bible.
And yes, Greeks and Romans did use science a lot, but only to find answers on questions where religion failed to answer. And that includes almost everything. Funny, Greeks and Romans were pretty scientific. After the Roman empire is no more, everything went worse. Christianity was one of the reasons the Roman Empire was no more. A lot of diseases, less wealth, etc. came after it, just because science became unimportant and religion became more important(a bit exaggerated on how I wrote this, but you'll get the point). Of course I have to say that less wealth means people would pray much more(another point that shows that believing in God comes only from being desparate).

1+1=2 is logical. If I have one plate with 2 apples and I have another plate with one apple. Now if I add another apple to the plate I would have two plates with the same identical number of apples. So 1+1=3 would only be right if we would change the symbols '2' and '3'.

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 253
(9/16/02 6:55 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

(Thank's to science we know we shouldn't do and believe everything written in the Bible. )

http://www.happinessonline.org/BeFaithfulToYourSexualPartner/p7.htm (go to this page)

Really I hate to copy the bible to the forum, but you keap repeating that every Christian is stupid and that there is nothing good written in the bible. Well look at this page. I keep repeating myself. We use the ten command and other rules in our European and American society whatever you like it or not.

And yes, Greeks and Romans did use science a lot, but only to find answers on questions where religion failed to answer.

Half true there were much scientists who were extreme believers.

Christianity was one of the reasons the Roman Empire was no more.

Were do you base this on The Roman empire failed for serveal reasons like that there was a lot wrong with there agricultur even in 400 b.C. it was already worse.

A lot of diseases, less wealth, etc.
came after it, just because science became unimportant and religion became more important(a bit exaggerated on how I wrote this, but you'll get the point). Of course I have to say that less wealth means people would pray much more(another point that shows that believing in God comes only from being desparate).

Ridiculous every cultur has his ups and downs this hasn't always to do with religion. And from the asses rissed our new on the bilbe based society sigh.......
I don't admit that the church made much faults but they have done more good than wrong.

( 1+1=2 is logical. If I have one plate with 2 apples and I have another plate with one apple. Now if I add another apple to the plate I would have two plates with the same identical number of apples. So 1+1=3 would only be right if we would change the symbols '2' and '3'. )

Aah you're missing my point completly!!!! I only try to say that you can learn kids everything you want. No matter of it is true or not. Later they start thinking about what they have learned bot Christians and atheists. Do you understant me this time?

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

baabis
Grunt
Posts: 26
(9/17/02 11:51 am)
62.78.173.104
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Even that basic morals are written in the bible with a religious-sounding tone, that doesn't mean they come from the bible.

Science would be far more advanced without religion. Think about it. When Kopernicus first suggested that the earth wasn't the center of the universe, he almost got himself killed by the holy inquisition(if that's how it's spelled) etc.

Edited by: baabis at: 9/17/02 11:55:03 am

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 256
(9/17/02 1:18 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Science would be far more advanced without religion. Think about it. When Kopernicus first suggested that the earth wasn't the center of the universe, he almost got himself killed by the holy inquisition(if that's how it's spelled) etc.

Again science was founded by believers. And 'that the earth wasn't the center of the universe' the bible does not say it is not, but all right medieval Christians were nos cientists but they saved the science books of the Romans and the Greeks. It is really narrow-minded how you see this, sorry. Things are never black-with and however the medieval Christians were stupid they have also done a few good thing. The Roman empire should also have fallen without them every culture will fall.... The Christians of today are not against science and some of them are even scientists they aren't stupid people without brain they only ae against evolution. The Christians whor are against science are extreme. And I hate both extreme Christians and atheists.

Even that basic morals are written in the bible with a religious-sounding tone, that doesn't mean they come from the bible.

Not? Remember that the society in Europe was a lot different before the Christians came they have teached the Germans the the morals we still use today. Only most people don't believe in God that is the only difference. Or is there something wrong with our society?

edit: grrr I've had the last word on the dolphin topic believe it or not but I didn't want to

! It is just liek the discussion was over and I've won but nobody can win it.......

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

Edited by: Djaser at: 9/17/02 2:43:36 pm

The Upravlenie
Vortininja
Posts: 209
(9/17/02 4:28 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
Science would be far more advanced without religion.

These are all(or were) creationists:

Louis Agassiz (1807-1873): glacial geology, ichthyology.
Charles Babbage (1792-1871): actuarial tables, calculating machine, foundations of computer science.
Francis Bacon (1561-1626): scientific method of research.
Robert Boyle (1627-1691): chemistry, gas dynamics.
Sir David Brewster (1781-1868) : optical mineralogy, kaleidoscope.
Georges Cuvier (1769-1832): comparative anatomy, vertebrate paleontology.
Sir Humphry Davy (1778-1829): thermokinetics.
Jean Henri Fabre (1823-1915): entomology of living insects.
Michael Faraday (1791-1867): electric generator, electro-magnetics, field theory.
Sir John A. Fleming (1849-1945): electronics, thermic valve.
Joseph Henry (1797-1878) : electric motor, galvanometer.
Sir William Herschel (1738-1822): galactic astronomy, double stars.
James Joule (1818-1889): reversible thermodynamics.
Lord William Kelvin (1824-1907): absolute temperature scale, energetics, thermodynamics, transatlantic cable.
Johannes Kepler (1571-1630): celestial mechanics, ephemeris tables, physical astronomy.
Carolus Linnaeus (1707-1778) : classification system, systematic biology.
Joseph Lister (1827-1912): antiseptic surgery.
Matthew Maury (1806-1873): hydrography, oceanography.
James C. Maxwell (1831-1879): electrical dynamics, statistical thermodynamics.
Gregor Mendel (1822-1884): genetics.
Samuel F.B. Morse (1791-1872): telegraph.
Isaac Newton (1642-1727): calculus, dynamics, law of gravity, reflecting telescopes.
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662): hydrostatics, barometer.
Louise Pasteur (1822-1895): bacteriology, biogenesis law, pasteurization, vaccination, and immunization.
Sir William Ramsey (1852-1916): inert gases, isotropic chemistry.
John Ray (1827-1705): natural history, classification of plants and animals.
John Rayleigh (1842-1919): dimensional analysis, model analysis.
Bernhard Riemann (1826-1866): non-Euclidean geometry.
Sir James Simpson (1811-1870): chloroform, gynecology.
Sir George Stockes (1819-1903): fluid mechanics.
Rudolph Virchow (1821-1902): pathology.

"Public opinion is for the government what a topographical map is for an army command in time of war."

Edited by: The Upravlenie at: 9/17/02 4:30:05 pm

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 259
(9/17/02 4:52 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Wow were did you find that list :eek

!!!???

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 283
(9/17/02 5:47 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Well, most of those Scientists invented from 1800-now. In the 19th century religion already became less popular.
It's still a coincidence that the better our wealth is, the less we believe in religion. Did you know that after September the 11th more people pray to God?

I said that Christianity was one of the reasons for the Roman Empire fall, not the main reason.
Science means advancement, religion means fictive hope(there's nothing wrong with it, as long it doesn't get too unrealistic).

Djaser, I have the feeling you want to stop the discussion. I can imagine. Next week I have my first test on the university, so I have to learn a lot to get a good rating. Probably won't be able to check all the messages in the forum, etc. May be I should have chosen to study Psychology. May be that would make it possible for me to understand why people believe in a religion. May be I should end with the sentence "Christianity started as a sect in the Roman Empire and in my eyes it still is", just like i did in the Dolphin topic. At least I can tell you that I understand a little bit, why people believe in a God after this discussion in the forum.

So actually if you learn a child that 1+1=3 the child would not think why. I thought that children at least want to know why.

Edited by: therealdopefish at: 9/17/02 5:51:37 pm

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 260
(9/17/02 6:07 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

( Did you know that after September the 11th more people pray to God? )

Ehm don't see what is wrong with that....

( Science means advancement, religion means fictive hope(there's nothing wrong with it, as long it doesn't get too unrealistic). )

Evenwhen when it is unrealisitc (and I can imagine why soem people think that) there is nothing.

( Djaser, I have the feeling you want to stop the discussion. I can imagine. Next week I have my first test on the university, so I have to learn a lot to get a good rating. Probably won't be able to check all the messages in the forum, etc. May be I should have chosen to study Psychology. May be that would make it possible for me to understand why people believe in a religion. May be I should end with the sentence "Christianity started as a sect in the Roman Empire and in my eyes it still is", just like i did in the Dolphin topic. )

First of all good luck with your test....... Secondly we can stop this discussion but I have no problem with talking futher.
But I think you have an unfair view at Christianity and others but perhaps I exaggerat it.......

( So actually if you learn a child that 1+1=3 the child would not think why. I thought that children at least want to know why. )

Well they should want to know why,yes. But it is still possibel to let them believe it. However it is just an example you could also let them believe more complecate things.....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

baabis
Grunt
Posts: 27
(9/17/02 7:37 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
Again science was founded by believers.

And adding Uppy's list to that.

So what? Most of the things Uppy mentioned had nothing to do with the creationism/evolutionism-thing. All I'm saying is that religion has slowed down science.

UppyII
Grunt
Posts: 4
(9/18/02 4:16 am)
63.237.230.31
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
All I'm saying is that religion has slowed down science.

Examples, please?

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 262
(9/18/02 6:56 am)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

( So what? Most of the things Uppy mentioned had nothing to do with the creationism/evolutionism-thing. All I'm saying is that religion has slowed down science. )

But the people he mentioned were also scientists, You'r no making you self clear :confused

....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 389
(9/18/02 12:03 pm)
203.151.38.4
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Did religion make those scientists start studying science? If not, then the list makes no difference to whether science did or did not slow down scientific advancements.

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 285
(9/18/02 4:38 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Well, remember Galileo Galilei(don't know if I spelled it right). He said the earth wasn't flat. Everybody said he was wrong and that he should listen to the Bible. That's an example of how science is slowed down by religion.

Praying is nothing more than hope. They hope a "God" helps them with their problem. You hear a lot about miracles by people who prayed to god. That's just a coincidence. You don't hear all those stories of people who prayed to god, but didn't get any help. It seems some people don't see that.
OK, you don't see it as a problem. I understand. I see it as a problem that people get unrealistic.
For example I once read that someone complained that nobody goes to the church anymore. I see it as a step forward.

Basically there was a time where I did everything myself without any help of others and without listening to other peoples ideas. Many people consider this as a bad thing. In fact it actually ain't. Doing something yourself would mean you create your own working/living style which can be more effective than repeating other peoples. It also creates a better view of the world we live in. So that's how I became an atheist. It's also the reason why I dislike religion and can't believe someone believes in a God. So basically I thought more about it than any of you. Try it out yourself and you might find out you're wrong.

Thank's for wishing me succes on the test BTW.

adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 576
(9/19/02 8:58 am)
144.137.23.232
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:

Did religion make those scientists start studying science? If not, then the list makes no difference to whether science did or did not slow down scientific advancements.

No it doesn't. Many of them laid the foundations for modern science and in doing so advanced science by a huge amount. So it seems illogical then to claim that "religion slows down science -- oops except in those cases" (not that anyone has actually said that yet).

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 132
(9/19/02 10:37 am)
212.178.7.57
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Therealdopefish, where does the Bible say the earth is flat?

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 393
(9/19/02 12:02 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
No it doesn't. Many of them laid the foundations for modern science and in doing so advanced science by a huge amount. So it seems illogical then to claim that "religion slows down science -- oops except in those cases" (not that anyone has actually said that yet).

No, my point was that religion did not necessarily speed up science, in those cases, and therefore that list tells nothing. Just because they were religious does not mean that religion actually made them better scientists than they already were. This is because whoever brought that "religion slows down science" up is not claiming that Christians can't be scientists, but that science has been slowed down by religion. Uppy's list is worthless in disproving that respect.

Quote:
Therealdopefish, where does the Bible say the earth is flat?

"And God created the earth flatly." Er, this is a joke, isn't it..?

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 270
(9/19/02 1:48 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

( "And God created the earth flatly." Er, this is a joke, isn't it..? )

Just, were did you found this in the bible?

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 396
(9/19/02 2:23 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr....please read your own quote........

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 271
(9/19/02 2:40 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

I need the contest before I can respond on it........ It can just be your tranletion...

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

baabis
Grunt
Posts: 29
(9/20/02 6:10 am)
62.78.173.104
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Dumbass!! It was a joke!!!

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 286
(9/20/02 7:48 am)
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Re:

The Bible doesn't say the earth is flat, but it's the same as witchcraft and hell. Christians believe(d) in it even though it's not written in the Bible. Did you know that around 1980 the pope finally said sorry to Galileo? A bit ironic, isn't it? After all, we already landed on the Moon in 1969.

Sorry to tell you but God is in your mind, but does not exist. Why do you think only humandkind believes in God and that religion is mainly about humankind itself?
I've already mentioned this before: it happens a lot that I say something and that nobody believes me, until they finally found out themselves I was speaking the truth.

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 138
(9/20/02 7:51 am)
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Re: Re:

Okay guys, spread it around the world:
THEREALDOPEFISH IS ALL-KNOWING!!

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 273
(9/20/02 11:59 am)
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Re: Re:

( Dumbass!! It was a joke!!! )

ow

Sorry Therearealldopefish but you keep doing if you know everything for sure...... By the way it were indeed Christians who beleived in witches but if it were atheits they wouldalso believe it. It was just the medieval time people in that timebelieved just everything they heard or though.....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

Edited by: Djaser at: 9/20/02 12:04:53 pm

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 287
(9/21/02 11:44 am)
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Re: Re: Re:

Most Atheists are critical about believing anything without concrete evidences.
As I mentioned about 3 times: Atheism is not a religion, but a disbelief in God. So yes, Atheists could believe in Witches, but probably wouldn't because they're critical in believing anything without evidences. Believe me, over 200 years you would read the following in the History books: "The 20th and 21th century were the centuries where freedom became very important, but most people still believed in religion." I really have the feeling I came back from the future. May be that's why I think the Delorean is a pretty good-looking car. :-)

Basically I have a perfect life: I have everything I want, have almost no personal weaknesses, have a lot of social contacts, etc. See what can happen with a person who has his own living/working style and by being critical about believing something?

Remeber Jules Vernes' books or Michelangelo's Airplane design? Nobody believed them that something like that was possible.

Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 327
(9/21/02 3:35 pm)
68.147.124.200
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Re: Re: Re:

Wasn't it Leonardo's airplane design?

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 274
(9/21/02 5:01 pm)
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Re: Re: Re:

( I really have the feeling I came back from the future. )

Wow, do you really think that

, and do you have evidence :lol

....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

UppyII
Grunt
Posts: 10
(9/22/02 1:55 am)
63.237.230.120
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Re: Re: Re:

Everyone: Please, Please, listen to this before making any more comments, thank you.

www.straitgate.com/gbgs.ram

Forge315
Grand Intellect
Posts: 953
(9/22/02 4:49 am)
68.1.75.121
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Dude your mad if you think anyone is gonna listen to that for two hours.

UppyII
Grunt
Posts: 12
(9/22/02 5:38 am)
63.237.230.50
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Re: .

Just skip the intro and go strait to the debate.

The debate is called "Does God Exist" by the way.

Edited by: UppyII at: 9/22/02 5:42:40 am

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 399
(9/22/02 6:41 am)
203.151.38.3
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Unable to establish a connection with the server.

UppyII
Grunt
Posts: 13
(9/22/02 6:48 am)
63.237.230.50
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Re: n

Just open it. Don't save it to disk.

It uses realplayer, I think.

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 403
(9/22/02 11:49 am)
203.151.38.3
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Re: n

I didn't save it to disk, I tried to open it. Realplayer came up then...ta da...

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 142
(9/23/02 8:29 am)
212.178.7.59
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Re: n

sorry uppy didn't listen to that
i hate realplayer...

UppyII
Grunt
Posts: 14
(9/23/02 7:30 pm)
63.237.230.119
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Re: n

I have realplayer version 6.0.5.27. Maybe you have an older version.

Hanno Embregts
Vortininja
Posts: 143
(9/26/02 7:32 am)
212.178.7.52
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Re: n

I must have...

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 288
(9/29/02 10:01 am)
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Re:

How amazing! I'm gone for one week and this thread has become off-topic. The quote of me : "I think I come from the future" is a joke. Don't you know that the Delorean was the timemachine in the movie Back to the Future?
I just saw the Matrix last monday. That "reality" can be compared a lot with religion. No, I'm not saying that we are living in a dream world right now and are used as a battery for robots(as in the Matrix). But religion gives us a dream world which does not exist. And some people really can't live without religion. It makes perfect sense to me why people believe in a God. Just to forget about the cruel reality. I'm also one of those few people who is not against violence on TV. Prohibiting violence on TV is nothing more than keep some reality away from humans.

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 297
(9/29/02 12:30 pm)
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Re: Re:

( But religion gives us a dream world which does not exist. And some people really can't live without religion. It makes perfect sense to me why people believe in a God. Just to forget about the cruel reality. )

What? Are you saying that I use religion as a drugs because my real life is so bad. You don't know anything about and of other Christians. Narrow-minded!

( I'm also one of those few people who is not against violence on TV. )

Good for you I'm also not against it....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

Edited by: Djaser at: 9/29/02 12:48:17 pm

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 298
(9/29/02 4:54 pm)
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Re: Re:

( How amazing! I'm gone for one week and this thread has become off-topic. )

There was just nothing to discuss about.....
And I had no problem with that but if you want to go one,ok:

1. Christianity has slown down science

Well I doubt this wenn the Roman empire collapsed it were the Christians who saved they science knowledge of the Romans. If they didn't wouldn't the world be as far advanced as it is today.

2.( yes, Atheists could believe in Witches, but probably wouldn't because they're critical in believing anything without evidences. )

You don't get my point if people didn't believe in anything woul'd they still believe in witches. Just because these people were not critical. Christians today aren't les critical then atheists.

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 289
(9/30/02 7:24 am)
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Re:

I'm not saying your life/lives are bad, but in bad times, most Christians pray to God and rely on hope instead of doing something against it themselves.
I also said that one of the reasons of the fall of the Roman Empire was Christianity. I did not say it was the only reason. People didn't want to have anything to do with the Roman Empire. I even heard that Roman scientists could make electricity, but they thought it was an useless invention.
Witches are said to be helpers of the Devil. The devil can be desrcibed as an "evil god", so why would an Atheist believe in witches?

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 405
(9/30/02 11:01 am)
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An athiest can believe in witches and not associate them with Satan. It's like little kids believing in monsters hiding in the closet.

Djaser, one example: after September 11, there was immediately a massive visiting of Churches in the USA. Their life had been shaken, and they wanted to get away from reality by believing that God would set things right.

Djaser
Vortininja
Posts: 301
(9/30/02 1:54 pm)
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Re: k

( Djaser, one example: after September 11, there was immediately a massive visiting of Churches in the USA. Their life had been shaken, and they wanted to get away from reality by believing that God would set things right. )

Mmh but you can also say that these people were frightened and were searching for support. This is a lot different from forgetting everything an only think about God.....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 291
(9/30/02 4:44 pm)
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Re: Re: K

And what kind of support can they expect? Only praying to God that nothing bad should happen with them. That's unrealistic.
Let's stop talking about whether Atheists could believe in witches. After all we don't know if we wouldn't believe in witches if we were all atheists. That's called a paradox. But with some common sense it's highly unlikely.

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 295
(10/5/02 4:00 pm)
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Re:

I've a question for people who believe in God. If God created the world with animals, humans, etc, then who created God?
BTW: Don't ask a counter question: "If the universe was created by the Big Bang, who created the Big Bang? " or something like that.

Djaser
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 322
(10/5/02 6:35 pm)
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Re: Re:

( I've a question for people who believe in God. If God created the world with animals, humans, etc, then who created God? )

Well first I will give you a counter question: how could there possible be a past without a deginning? Isn't this also strange to believe?

Secondly Luther said once hat God was creating rods before he created earth made rods for every person who asked stupid questions like this....
Think about that I don't say you can't asl questions like this but does it really matter how God was created?
There is a never ending past with God like there is a neverending past were you in believe........

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 296
(10/8/02 11:16 am)
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Re:

The answer is simple: Humans created God. That sounds like a chicken-egg problem(who was earlier: the egg or the chicken who laid the egg?).
The Big Bang is a theory, which is something entirely different then the Bible telling us the "truth". You believe a theory or not.

You say that there can't be a past without a beginning. Then God should have a beginning, right? Believing that a supernatural power created all of us is just finding an answer on a question you really have no answer for it, but it only shifts the question.

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 410
(10/8/02 1:19 pm)
203.151.38.3
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
Believing that a supernatural power created all of us is just finding an answer on a question you really have no answer for it, but it only shifts the question.

Yeah...that was the problem that was just around my head. Uppy was like: "The universe could not have created itself, so God must have created it, God could not have been created, so God must have simply existed since the beginning."

adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 592
(10/8/02 1:29 pm)
144.137.31.117
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Re: Re:

therealdopefish wrote:

Quote:

I also said that one of the reasons of the fall of the Roman Empire was Christianity

The Roman Empire was definitely on the downturn before 1 AD (although it was still far from collapsing). However, the primary causes for its downfall (if I remember my history -- I would look it up but it's past midnight) were political issues and also continued attacks from Northern tribes (Goths, Huns, and suchlikes), and the capture of Rome, etc. Christianity had little if anything to do with it.

Quote:

I've a question for people who believe in God. If God created the world with animals, humans, etc, then who created God?

I think I mentioned this somewhere before (possibly in the Dolphins thread), but I couldn't find it. It was something about the universe logically needing some separate eternal (or at least having no past) entity to give the universe a kickstart (at least). I can't recall the argument, so I'll have to have a look tomorrow sometime (it's now half past midnight).

Djaser
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 333
(10/8/02 1:39 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

( The answer is simple: Humans created God. That sounds like a chicken-egg problem(who was earlier: the egg or the chicken who laid the egg?). )

Well you have said this before and you can't prove it neither can I prove that God excist.

( You believe a theory or not. )

Indeed and I don't believe everything of the evolution theory like you don't believe in teh creatonism theory.

( You say that there can't be a past without a beginning. )

Lol who is saying this I didn't or you just didn't understant me.

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

baabis
Vortininja
Posts: 59
(10/10/02 1:49 pm)
62.78.173.104
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Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
Indeed and I don't believe everything of the evolution theory like you don't believe in teh creatonism theory.

Well, yes, but nobody goes running around in the street declaring the evolutionary theory the ultimate truth.
Religious people say: "The creationism theory is the Ultimate Truth!", with no proof.
Atheists and scientists say: "The evolutionary theory is a very logic and rational explanation for why we are here." With lot's of proof.

Djaser
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 342
(10/10/02 6:10 pm)
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Re: How many people here are religious?

( Religious people say: "The creationism theory is the Ultimate Truth!", with no proof. )

Well some of them perhaps....

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 299
(10/12/02 1:39 pm)
62.251.83.73
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Re:

If you doubt what kind of religion, etc. you have do the test at www.selectsmart.com/RELIGION/
These were my results:
1. Secular Humanism (100%) Click here for info
2. Unitarian Universalism (91%) Click here for info
3. Nontheist (85%) Click here for info
4. Theravada Buddhism (82%) Click here for info
5. Liberal Quakers (80%) Click here for info
6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (63%) Click here for info
7. Neo-Pagan (62%) Click here for info
8. Jainism (59%) Click here for info
9. Bahá'í Faith (55%) Click here for info
10. Taoism (55%) Click here for info
11. Orthodox Quaker (55%) Click here for info
12. Reform Judaism (51%) Click here for info
13. Hinduism (49%) Click here for info
14. Mahayana Buddhism (48%) Click here for info
15. New Age (48%) Click here for info
16. Seventh Day Adventist (47%) Click here for info
17. Sikhism (44%) Click here for info
18. Islam (43%) Click here for info
19. Orthodox Judaism (43%) Click here for info
20. Scientology (38%) Click here for info
21. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (37%) Click here for info
22. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (36%) Click here for info
23. New Thought (36%) Click here for info
24. Eastern Orthodox (33%) Click here for info
25. Roman Catholic (33%) Click here for info
26. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (29%) Click here for info
27. Jehovah's Witness (29%) Click here for info
Just ignore the click here for info. I was just doing copy-paste. I never thought I would be a 100% humanist.

Xtraverse
Stranded Fish
Posts: 489
(10/12/02 3:06 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

1. Secular Humanism (100%) Click here for info
2. Unitarian Universalism (94%) Click here for info
3. Theravada Buddhism (86%) Click here for info
4. Liberal Quakers (83%) Click here for info
5. Nontheist (74%) Click here for info
6. Neo-Pagan (69%) Click here for info
7. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (67%) Click here for info
8. New Age (59%) Click here for info
9. Taoism (56%) Click here for info
10. Mahayana Buddhism (54%) Click here for info
11. Orthodox Quaker (54%) Click here for info
12. Bahá'í Faith (47%) Click here for info
13. Reform Judaism (47%) Click here for info
14. Sikhism (47%) Click here for info
15. Jainism (42%) Click here for info
16. New Thought (38%) Click here for info
17. Scientology (36%) Click here for info
18. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (33%) Click here for info
19. Hinduism (33%) Click here for info
20. Seventh Day Adventist (32%) Click here for info
21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (28%) Click here for info
22. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (28%) Click here for info
23. Eastern Orthodox (27%) Click here for info
24. Islam (27%) Click here for info
25. Orthodox Judaism (27%) Click here for info
26. Roman Catholic (27%) Click here for info
27. Jehovah's Witness (23%)

erm..I don't think that's very accurate--they should have a separate choice for 'Doesn't Exist' and 'Not Sure.'

Djaser
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 346
(10/12/02 6:01 pm)
62.238.255.224
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Re: ..

Funny, Therearealldopefih I will do the test...

Your Results:

1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%) Click here for info
2. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (99%) Click here for info
3. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (96%) Click here for info
4. Bahá'í Faith (90%) Click here for info
5. Jehovah's Witness (89%) Click here for info
6. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (82%) Click here for info
7. New Thought (76%) Click here for info
8. Orthodox Quaker (75%) Click here for info
9. Liberal Quakers (73%) Click here for info
10. Unitarian Universalism (61%) Click here for info
11. Scientology (57%) Click here for info
12. Seventh Day Adventist (55%) Click here for info
13. Mahayana Buddhism (54%) Click here for info
14. Orthodox Judaism (54%) Click here for info
15. Theravada Buddhism (54%) Click here for info
16. New Age (51%) Click here for info
17. Eastern Orthodox (48%) Click here for info
18. Islam (48%) Click here for info
19. Roman Catholic (48%) Click here for info
20. Sikhism (47%) Click here for info
21. Reform Judaism (45%) Click here for info
22. Nontheist (41%) Click here for info
23. Neo-Pagan (40%) Click here for info
24. Taoism (37%) Click here for info
25. Secular Humanism (35%) Click here for info
26. Jainism (31%) Click here for info
27. Hinduism (25%) Click here for info

Not suprised :lol

!
edit: What the #%^# Jehovas witness on th 5th place :stunned

. This can't be :furious

Believe it or not Potter is on the forum........

Edited by: Djaser at: 10/16/02 5:52:51 pm

baabis
Vortininja
Posts: 61
(10/13/02 1:00 pm)
62.78.173.104
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ..

1. Secular Humanism (100%) Click here for info
2. Unitarian Universalism (94%) Click here for info
3. Nontheist (77%) Click here for info
4. Theravada Buddhism (74%) Click here for info
5. Liberal Quakers (73%) Click here for info
6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (61%) Click here for info
7. Neo-Pagan (57%) Click here for info
8. Taoism (48%) Click here for info
9. Reform Judaism (47%) Click here for info
10. New Age (47%) Click here for info
11. Mahayana Buddhism (41%) Click here for info
12. New Thought (39%) Click here for info
13. Scientology (39%) Click here for info
14. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (33%) Click here for info
15. Bahá'í Faith (31%) Click here for info
16. Sikhism (29%) Click here for info
17. Orthodox Quaker (28%) Click here for info
18. Jainism (25%) Click here for info
19. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (17%) Click here for info
20. Islam (17%) Click here for info
21. Orthodox Judaism (17%) Click here for info
22. Hinduism (16%) Click here for info
23. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (13%) Click here for info
24. Seventh Day Adventist (8%) Click here for info
25. Eastern Orthodox (8%) Click here for info
26. Roman Catholic (8%) Click here for info
27. Jehovah's Witness (2%) Click here for info

So I won't be a jehovah's witness then, eh?

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 420
(10/13/02 2:10 pm)
203.151.38.3
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Your Results:

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%) Click here for info
2. Neo-Pagan (96%) Click here for info
3. Liberal Quakers (83%) Click here for info
4. Theravada Buddhism (82%) Click here for info
5. Mahayana Buddhism (82%) Click here for info
6. Sikhism (75%) Click here for info
7. Secular Humanism (73%) Click here for info
8. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (70%) Click here for info
9. New Age (69%) Click here for info
10. Reform Judaism (68%) Click here for info
11. Taoism (68%) Click here for info
12. Hinduism (60%) Click here for info
13. Nontheist (55%) Click here for info
14. Jainism (54%) Click here for info
15. Orthodox Quaker (54%) Click here for info
16. Bahá'í Faith (53%) Click here for info
17. Scientology (46%) Click here for info
18. Islam (44%) Click here for info
19. Orthodox Judaism (44%) Click here for info
20. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (42%) Click here for info
21. New Thought (41%) Click here for info
22. Seventh Day Adventist (38%) Click here for info
23. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (36%) Click here for info
24. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (34%) Click here for info
25. Eastern Orthodox (26%) Click here for info
26. Roman Catholic (26%) Click here for info
27. Jehovah's Witness (21%) Click here for info

UppyII
Vortininja
Posts: 40
(10/14/02 7:09 pm)
63.237.230.71
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Re: v

1. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (100%)

Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 356
(10/17/02 6:44 pm)
68.147.124.200
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: v

The site isn't working for me right now...but I do remember that I had done it before and this is what I got:

1. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (100%) Click here for info

Which is fitting I suppose...

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

therealdopefish
Vortininja
Posts: 300
(10/17/02 7:01 pm)
62.251.83.73
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re:

It suits me fine as well. The first 5 all seem to have something to do with atheism. See the difference in percentage between number 5 and 6? Not many jehova witnesses around here. :>

Xtraverse
Stranded Fish
Posts: 510
(10/17/02 9:54 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

...

It may be accurate for some of you...not at all for me

UppyII
Vortininja
Posts: 48
(10/17/02 11:42 pm)
63.237.230.93
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Re: ...

What do you mean, Xtra?

Xtraverse
Stranded Fish
Posts: 1092
(1/10/03 8:51 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ...

Well according to them an Agnostic is the same as an Athiest. I'm really not sure what to classify myself as...

commanderklown
Vortininja
Posts: 106
(1/11/03 4:55 am)
216.126.153.67
Reply | Edit | Del

1. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (100%) Click here for info
2. Orthodox Quaker (89%) Click here for info
3. Seventh Day Adventist (87%) Click here for info
4. Eastern Orthodox (85%) Click here for info
5. Roman Catholic (85%) Click here for info
6. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (66%) Click here for info
7. Islam (55%) Click here for info
8. Orthodox Judaism (55%) Click here for info
9. Jehovah's Witness (46%) Click here for info
10. Liberal Quakers (44%) Click here for info
11. Hinduism (41%) Click here for info
12. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (37%) Click here for info
13. Unitarian Universalism (36%) Click here for info
14. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (36%) Click here for info
15. Bahá'í Faith (36%) Click here for info
16. Reform Judaism (30%) Click here for info
17. New Thought (27%) Click here for info
18. Sikhism (27%) Click here for info
19. Jainism (27%) Click here for info
20. Scientology (27%) Click here for info
21. Nontheist (23%) Click here for info
22. Mahayana Buddhism (22%) Click here for info
23. Theravada Buddhism (22%) Click here for info
24. New Age (18%) Click here for info
25. Neo-Pagan (14%) Click here for info
26. Secular Humanism (11%) Click here for info
27. Taoism (10%) Click here for info

KeenRush
Garg
Posts: 1864
(1/11/03 7:28 am)
212.246.177.8
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: .

I think I didn't understand all the questions..
Islam (100%) :lol

The universe is not toast!

commanderklown
Vortininja
Posts: 108
(1/11/03 3:20 pm)
66.19.28.137
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: .

dont you go blow up any buildings dude

The grass was green, the mountains tall
In Elders Days before the fall
Of Mighty Kings in Nargothrond,
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away;
The World was fair in Durin's Day

Xtraverse
Stranded Fish
Posts: 1100
(1/11/03 5:01 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: .

I tried again and got Unitarian Universalism (100%)

eK
Isonian
Posts: 1025
(3/31/03 7:05 am)
143.109.91.236
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: .

I'm a Hindu!

1. Reform Judaism (100%)
2. Liberal Quakers (95%)
3. Unitarian Universalism (91%)
4. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (86%)
5. Bahá'í Faith (78%)
6. New Age (71%)
7. Neo-Pagan (70%)
8. Secular Humanism (66%)
9. Orthodox Judaism (64%)
10. Sikhism (63%)
11. Theravada Buddhism (60%)
12. New Thought (59%)
13. Islam (59%)
14. Mahayana Buddhism (56%)
15. Orthodox Quaker (55%)
16. Scientology (53%)
17. Jainism (50%)
18. Taoism (47%)
19. Non-theist (44%)
20. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) 21. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (41%)
22. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (36%)
23. Jehovah's Witness (30%)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (29%)
25. Eastern Orthodox (27%)
26. Roman Catholic (27%)
27. Hinduism (24%)

Forge315
Grand Intellect
Posts: 1357
(3/31/03 8:29 am)
68.106.137.215
Reply | Edit | Del

Eh almost an Orthodox Quaker, :lol

Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (100%)
Orthodox Quaker (89%)
Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (79%)
Seventh Day Adventist (77%)
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (71%)
Eastern Orthodox (64%)
Roman Catholic (64%)
Bahá'í Faith (61%)
Liberal Quakers (54%)
Islam (49%)
Orthodox Judaism (49%)
Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (46%)
Unitarian Universalism (46%)
Jainism (43%)
Mahayana Buddhism (34%)
Theravada Buddhism (34%)
Non-theist (32%)
Neo-Pagan (30%)
New Age (30%)
Secular Humanism (29%)
Hinduism (28%)
Sikhism (26%)
Reform Judaism (26%)
New Thought (23%)
Scientology (18%)

If you got answers you don't think are correct, then maybe you didn't answer the questions in view of the red text.

Such as questions 8-12, were about your beliefs on getting to heaven (salvation). So in question eleven if somebody forgot that, they might think, do I support doing good deed or not. The answer is almost always yes, but the conservative Christian believes works can't save you, so he or she could end up giving an invalid answer. So read the questions carefully and be adherent to your beliefs.

eK
Isonian
Posts: 1029
(3/31/03 1:20 pm)
143.109.91.236
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: .

I think it would be interesting if someone sat down and calculated the stats of everyone who takes the test... finding the average for the keen community.

Djaser

Holy Monk Yorp
Posts: 1187
(3/31/03 7:28 pm)
212.92.76.33
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: .

Your Results:

1. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (100%)
Browse Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants related books. Click here for info

2. Bahá'í Faith (92%)
Browse Bahá'í Faith related books. Click here for info

3. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (92%)
Browse Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant related books. Click here for info

4. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (90%)
Browse Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) related books. Click here for info

5. Orthodox Quaker (89%)
Browse Orthodox Quaker related books. Click here for info

6. Liberal Quakers (87%)
Browse Liberal Quakers related books. Click here for info

7. Jehovah's Witness (87%)
Browse Jehovah's Witness related books. Click here for info

8. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (80%)
Browse Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) related books. Click here for info

9. Sikhism (77%)
Browse Sikhism related books. Click here for info

10. Mahayana Buddhism (73%)
Browse Mahayana Buddhism related books. Click here for info

11. Unitarian Universalism (72%)
Browse Unitarian Universalism related books. Click here for info

12. Eastern Orthodox (71%)
Browse Eastern Orthodox related books. Click here for info

13. Roman Catholic (71%)
Browse Roman Catholic related books. Click here for info

14. Theravada Buddhism (71%)
Browse Theravada Buddhism related books. Click here for info

15. Orthodox Judaism (66%)
Browse Orthodox Judaism related books. Click here for info

16. Islam (63%)
Browse Islam related books. Click here for info

17. New Thought (60%)
Browse New Thought related books. Click here for info

18. Reform Judaism (60%)
Browse Reform Judaism related books. Click here for info

19. Neo-Pagan (59%)
Browse Neo-Pagan related books. Click here for info

20. Hinduism (54%)
Browse Hinduism related books. Click here for info

21. Jainism (54%)
Browse Jainism related books. Click here for info

22. New Age (54%)
Browse New Age related books. Click here for info

23. Seventh Day Adventist (47%)
Browse Seventh Day Adventist related books. Click here for info

24. Scientology (46%)
Browse Scientology related books. Click here for info

25. Taoism (36%)
Browse Taoism related books. Click here for info

26. Secular Humanism (34%)
Browse Secular Humanism related books. Click here for info

27. Non-theist (23%)

Well ehm go ahead eK, rather you than me

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

ceilick

Vortininja
Posts: 163
(4/2/03 2:46 am)
207.252.227.7
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

I'm a Mainline- conservative christian protestant (100%)

eK
Isonian
Posts: 1039
(4/2/03 8:38 am)
143.109.91.236
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

Any other Hindus in the crowd?

KeenRush
Garg
Posts: 2927
(4/2/03 3:01 pm)
212.246.17.130
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

What about Islams?

Hmmm, I think I should next time read the questions more carefully..

Greetings from Bloogton Tower!

therealdopefish
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 400
(4/2/03 5:44 pm)
62.251.83.73
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

Well, often I had to answer I did not believe it, so may be that's why mine was pretty accurate.

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

MRC Marky
Vortininja
Posts: 302
(4/3/03 8:40 am)
62.71.135.136
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (96%)
3. Neo-Pagan (80%)
4. Liberal Quakers (79%)
5. Non-theist (69%)
6. Hinduism (69%)
7. Theravada Buddhism (68%)
8. New Age (66%)
9. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (62%)
10. Orthodox Quaker (56%)
11. Sikhism (55%)
12. Taoism (51%)
13. Mahayana Buddhism (51%)
14. Jainism (50%)
15. Scientology (47%)
16. Bahá'í Faith (46%)
17. Jehovah's Witness (45%)
18. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (45%)
19. New Thought (43%)
20. Orthodox Judaism (41%)
21. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (39%)
22. Eastern Orthodox (38%)
23. Roman Catholic (38%)
24. Seventh Day Adventist (37%)
25. Reform Judaism (32%)
26. Mainline - Conservative Christian Protestant (29%)
27. Islam (22%)

Wow.. my muslim relatives would be disappointed

Why is this poll discounting various other Christian churches? ah.. I guess reformists are all considered very related.

baabis
Gannalech
Posts: 171
(4/3/03 8:11 pm)
62.78.239.196
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

These tests are a bit stupid. Since they don't make difference between "There is a god.", "There might be a god", and "Whether or not god exists doesn't matter."
All atheists I know got Unitarian Universalism(including me).
I looked up a bit on Unitarian Universalism, and it seems to me it's just a nice title you can grab without doing really anything since it allows you to believe in whatever you want.
Why isn't atheism an option?

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

Xtraverse
Stranded Fish
Posts: 1899
(4/3/03 8:28 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

Agnosticism isn't an option either which annoys me.

chogall
Vorticon Elder
Posts: 1276
(4/4/03 6:49 pm)
217.70.229.39
Reply | Edit | Del
ezSupporter

Re: How many people here are religious?

The test isn't just a religion test, it's a test about your view of life. Atheism is not an option because there are many different life philosophies sharing the property of atheism.

MRC Marky
Vortininja
Posts: 306
(4/6/03 7:35 pm)
80.221.15.73
Reply | Edit | Del

Now coming to think of it, I believe I'm a druid.

Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 898
(4/7/03 8:54 pm)
68.147.124.200
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: -

Weren't druids all women?

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

therealdopefish
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 413
(4/8/03 7:24 am)
62.251.83.73
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: -

The only Druid I know is that druid from Asterix and Obelix.

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Djaser

Holy Monk Yorp
Posts: 1262
(4/8/03 7:46 am)
212.92.76.33
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: -

Mhhhh you haven't a wide view of religion. Have you :redeyes

therealdopefish
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 416
(4/10/03 8:02 am)
62.251.83.73
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: -

No, it's more that I don't care about religion.

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

LordOfGlobox
Vortininja
Posts: 156
(4/11/03 7:07 pm)
209.81.165.217
Reply | Edit | Del

...

Is this the "Religeon Test"??

UppyII
Vortininja
Posts: 296
(4/14/03 5:20 am)
206.63.170.56
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ...

Here, this should answer your question:pub128.ezboard.com/fpubliccommanderkeenforumfrm5.showMessage?topicID=11.topic

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 555
(4/14/03 4:12 pm)
203.151.38.3
Reply | Edit | Del

Briefly venting my anger

Geez, Uppy, stop trolling!!!

Edit - I was referring to your final post in the Rules thread, in which eK was attacked. Yes, it was probably provoked and/or reasonable, yet you probably should not do something that looks very much like carrying an argument from a different thread over to a thread with an apparently unrelated subject. Shoot, this post is probably doing the same thing. :oops

And yes, there is a difference between the statements "You're a moron" and "F**K you": one is meant to convey information (and while the information may be interpreted as an insult, the statement is not directly so), aka. an "indirect insult"; the other conveys no information, and is merely a signal of action/labeling/insultation, aka. a "direct insult." I would rather say to someone that they are a moron (providing at least interpretable/arguable information), than to make a direct "F**K you" statement (which can not be countered through peaceful means). And right, LordOfGlobox probably shouldn't be banned just for that; I too would wish simply to delete his post and continue the discussion. I better end this, before this thread, too, gets iced, but Cho'gall, do please hear that part of the arguers' plea.

~~~~~~~~~

There, back to the discussion.

Edited by: KeenEmpire at: 4/14/03 6:14:47 pm

UppyII
Vortininja
Posts: 298
(4/14/03 4:45 pm)
206.63.170.49
Reply | Edit | Del

????!

?
That was mean't as a joke for crying out loud. I wasn't trying to irritate anyone.

UppyII
Vortininja
Posts: 299
(4/14/03 7:34 pm)
206.63.170.75
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: Briefly venting my anger

*sigh*
Yah, I know. I shouldn't have said anything. Should've just left it alone. It was my mistake.

Quote:
And yes, there is a difference between the statements "You're a moron" and "F**K you": one is meant to convey information (and while the information may be interpreted as an insult, the statement is not directly so), aka. an "indirect insult"; the other conveys no information, and is merely a signal of action/labeling/insultation, aka. a "direct insult." I would rather say to someone that they are a moron (providing at least interpretable/arguable information), than to make a direct "F**K you" statement (which can not be countered through peaceful means).

Yah, I know. Again, just a joke.

Quote:
I better end this, before this thread, too, gets iced, but Cho'gall, do please hear that part of the arguers' plea.

Agreed. I will try my hardest not to press an issue if I know that emotions will fly as a result.

But I do have to say that Cho'gall is too hasty to close threads. I think that an edited post here and a warning there would be nice.
Edit: Opps, wrong emotikeen.

Edited by: UppyII at: 4/14/03 8:00:09 pm

eK
Isonian
Posts: 1110
(4/14/03 7:48 pm)
143.109.58.24
Reply | Edit | Del

Er.

He wasn't banned for that, and he WAS warned.

The only person I can think of that's been banned from the board is Shocksund.

chogall
Vorticon Elder
Posts: 1300
(4/14/03 9:37 pm)
130.67.238.239
Reply | Edit | Del
ezSupporter

Re: Briefly venting my anger

LordOfGlobox' angry message wasn't the sole reason for the Potter thread getting closed, but it was the last straw. The "Is Harry Potter Satanic" thread had been going on for a while and steadily degenerated all the way from "argument" to "flame war". While in the beginning, most debatants at least tried to make some sort of point, the last pages were mostly petty arguing and name-calling. LordOfGlobox' message was the first message with serious flaming, but I'm sure that if he (she?) hadn't posted that, someone else would have done it instead. The thread was already doomed.

This thread, and the "Beliefs" one, still have potential for a normal discussion. If you (you as in all of the participants) wish to keep it that way, you'll have to take some responsibility in order to avoid them turning into disputes. In other words: Discuss all you want, but don't start attacking your co-debatants, because that'll spoil the friendly tone we wish to keep on this message board.

UppyII
Vortininja
Posts: 302
(4/14/03 10:44 pm)
206.63.170.43
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: Briefly venting my anger

I still don't see why a warning wouldn't have sufficed.

Anyway, I say that we continue the 'origins' part of the Harry Potter thread in the 'beliefs' one and everything else, in this one here. Everyone ok with that?

Keengamer
Commander Keen Mad
Posts: 489
(4/17/03 4:28 am)
203.123.64.150
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

i with the salvation army religion which means that your are not allowed to smoke,take harmful drugs,commit a crime,gamble or drink booze

BTW: does my new avatar work?

Billy Blaze Is The Hero Of The Universe

Jawa Wars (Rorie's Place On The Web)

Djaser

Holy Monk Yorp
Posts: 1324
(4/17/03 11:49 am)
212.92.76.33
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

It does

Xtraverse

Stranded Fish
Posts: 2027
(4/17/03 3:20 pm)
64.30.37.14
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

Quote:
i with the salvation army religion which means that your are not allowed to smoke,take harmful drugs,commit a crime,gamble or drink booze

And you're allowed to if you'r'e not in this religion?

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 565
(4/19/03 6:47 pm)
203.151.38.3
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

I think he's just listing the rules of that particular religion.

Alpha, Alpha, before with shouts of W00t!
Hornets flew there; the light upon the silver Staff Suit,
Fell like black rain upon the bases of the squads of old,
Oh proud Walls, oh shooting turrets, oh unblocked road for all the bold!
Alpha, Alpha, will infs behold the silver suit,
Or bubblegum blow again with cries of happy W00t?

IluvKeen
Grunt
Posts: 24
(6/5/03 6:22 am)
211.28.96.70
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: How many people here are religious?

I Belive In God. :beg

LordOfGlobox
Vortininja
Posts: 177
(6/5/03 1:24 pm)
209.81.165.210
Reply | Edit | Del

potter.

Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 1063
(6/5/03 2:13 pm)
68.147.109.142
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: potter.

You had a choice. You chose the wrong answer. It's your fault.

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.
Eat at Joes

Djaser

Holy Monk Yorp
Posts: 1563
(6/5/03 5:02 pm)
212.92.76.33
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: potter.

I would say that it was more eKs fault. The reason why trolling is forbidden on forum is that people can get mad and begin calling other people names.

LordOfGlobox
Vortininja
Posts: 186
(6/5/03 5:12 pm)
209.81.165.60
Reply | Edit | Del

RE:

Flaose, stop before trolling cycle starts again.

Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 1067
(6/6/03 2:32 pm)
68.147.109.142
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: RE:

I wasn't trolling, I was telling the truth. You chose to lose control, so it's your fault.

You can't blame others for losing control over yourself.

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.
Eat at Joes

Djaser

Holy Monk Yorp
Posts: 1570
(6/6/03 2:53 pm)
212.92.76.33
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: RE:

How can you chose to lose control over yourself :confused

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 582
(6/8/03 10:44 am)
203.151.38.3
Reply | Edit | Del

By succumbing to your emotions, and deciding that they should rule your responses?

LordOfGlobox
Vortininja
Posts: 187
(6/18/03 12:44 pm)
209.81.165.17
Reply | Edit | Del

ads

Xtraverse

Stranded Fish
Posts: 2270
(6/18/03 3:03 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ads

Look, eK may have acted stupid by calling everyone morons, but that doesn't matter. He may have been trying to provoke you, but that doesn't matter. You are the sole person who can control your actions.

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you on experience -- Mark Twain
xtravaganza: http://www.xtraverse.co.nr/ http://www.xtraverse.tk/

KeenEmpire
Keen's Empire
Posts: 603
(6/18/03 3:10 pm)
203.151.38.3
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ads

In the question of intentional provocation, I would say that eK is about as innocent as the woman walking down the road, "looking pretty." He stated repreatedly that he felt like, and wanted to simply stop arguing, giving an idea that he didn't even want to come back and say anything.

Quote:
Just remember that this is the year of the elite devil.

1337 + 666 = 2003

Djaser

Holy Monk Yorp
Posts: 1621
(6/18/03 4:35 pm)
212.92.76.33
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ads

Quote:
Look, eK may have acted stupid by calling everyone morons, but that doesn't matter. He may have been trying to provoke you, but that doesn't matter. You are the sole person who can control your actions.

What doesn't take away that it was very a behave for an admin.

Xtraverse

Stranded Fish
Posts: 2272
(6/18/03 8:57 pm)
24.48.163.42
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ads

I'm not saying that's a good thing Djaser, but that's apart from the point--it didn't make LordofGlobox unable to think for himself.

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you on experience -- Mark Twain
xtravaganza: http://www.xtraverse.co.nr/ http://www.xtraverse.tk/

therealdopefish
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 446
(6/20/03 9:19 am)
62.251.83.73
Reply | Edit | Del

Re: ads

Sigh

If Dopefish is for real, what would it be evolved from?

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