Quote:

---

Sorry, only registered users can reply to this poll

---

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

My Remixes: Here! Click here!

Greetings from Bloogton Tower!

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

except monkey-do.

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Greetings from Bloogton Tower!

My Remixes: Here! Click here!

Quote:

---

You guys don't understand how science works. It is unable to prove that the theory of evolution is universally true. However, scientists have observed that all sightings of how things happen in nature consist with what the theory of evolution predicts, therefore it is accepted as true. If one day evidence is gathered that is incompatible with the theory of evolution, the theory will be rejected and one will attempt to make a new hypothesis explaining those facts. -Chogall

---

Quote:

---

What you need to understand is: Evolution doesn't happen on individual basis, but on population basis. One animal doesn't suddenly turn into another, but the genetic composition of a population changes over time.
Imagine a place with only white moths being predated by birds. A genetic mutation, or the combination of several mutations, causes moths to be born which happen to be black. The black moths are much less predated than the white ones because the birds cannot see them as easily. This is called selection, and we say that the white moths are being selected against. This leads to an advantage for the black moths, so their numbers increase dramatically. But the white and the black moths aren't separate species yet, because the differences between them only concern the color and they can still interbreed.–Chogall

---

Quote:

---

But genetic mutations happen all the time. If the white and the black moth populations are kept separate for a long time, they will both accumulate mutations. Some of those may cause certain biochemical changes. Since the populations are separate, these changes are different in both populations and may lead to the two types of moths no longer being able to interbreed. They will then be two different species.

Since the two moth species can no longer interbreed, there is no genetic exchange between the two populations. Changes may then occur independently which make the two species even more distinct. -Chogall

---

Quote:

---

Alright, I can't prove anything. Mostly, what I'm saying is based on what I know to be true, and common-sense observations stemming from that. –Grelphy

---

Quote:

---

Given long enough, they would.

That is what the theory of evolution says. If the dark moths had been seperated from the light moths, and the light moths had been kept alivee somehow, eventually the dark moths would have lost their ability to interbreed with the dark moths and they would have been seperate species. Evolution would have occurred. It takes thousands to millions of years, buut it does happen.\ -Grelphy

---

Quote:

---

Among microbes, natural selection occurs much faster. The AIDS virus, for example, will adapt to become resistant to the drugs that are used against it. –Grelphy

---

My Remixes: Here! Click here!

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

Quote:

---

Also. since the peppered moth case has come up again...
Given that the more "correct" forms of the moth (i.e., the ones that are selected for) survive slightly better, they tend to shift the gene pool in that direction. Enough shift, and...

---

Quote:

---

And I'm in a banning mood right now, so don't push me.

---

Quote:

---

I'm serious here. If you aren't going to bother to learn about something like this, don't be an ass and refute it. I'm not in the mood to see the same old assinine arguements cycle through another post.

---

Quote:

---

Ok, I'll advance an argument that hasn't been through here before. I say that the cell is irreducibly complex and cannot evolve through a process of small subtle changes because of its complexity.

---

Quote:

---

Yes, and science is also unable to show that the GTE (General Theory of Evolution) is even a reasonable theory. Evidence to the contrary has been shown, but is always ignored. I believe it's because people don't want to admit that there's a god out there.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: LordOfGlobox
Who has a stick up your ass?

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Uppy does. eK specifically asked for no evolutionary debate in this thread, and Uppy started debating.

---

Quote:

---

Continue the discussion if you want here.

---

Quote:

---

And, I'd rather no one debated it any more for the same reason that very few people here grasp what it is.

---

Quote:

---

Nobody is going to get banned for their opinions. As long as you act correctly (no flames), and keep the debates in the proper thread, you'll be fine.

---

Quote:

---

Yes, and science is also unable to show that the GTE (General Theory of Evolution) is even a reasonable theory. Evidence to the contrary has been shown, but is always ignored. I believe it's because people don't want to admit that there's a god out there.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

"...And during the 'DemOps' event, Keen set the series of events leading to the formation of the Second Universal Empire That Ever Existed...

...That Empire, with an economy based on capitalism, and yet not quite, was..."

-The Summerizer's Guide to the Universe, Day Edition; Last updated 8/14/2021.

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Edited by: Djaser  at: 3/27/03 8:11:53 pm

Quote:

---

when you say: "It's all based on facts" No its not! Where's the facts? There is no proof the worlds a billion years old.

---

Quote:

---

Carbon dating is not guesswork. It would not be used today if it was guesswork. It has nothing to do with the "fossils around the object." Did you actually read up on it?

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

Quote:

---

Occaisional discrepancies in carbon-14 dating are caused by "old" carbon getting trapped in the bodies of "new" animals(i.e., eaten) and then getting sampled. The vast majority of C-14 datings are correct to within about 100 years.-Grelphy

---

Quote:

---

Admit? I say I can't believe someone believes in God. And God is reasonable? Next you say the garden of Eden exists. My opinion is that everything which can not me be measured or seen in any way does not exist.

---

Quote:

---

Entropy increases if energy is not used to reverse the process. The process of using energy for that purpose creates at least an equivilant amount of disorder, but that's beside the point. An energy source (such as, you know, the sun) can provide sufficient power to work against the increase in entropy, and though we know the sun itself is wearing down, the earth is being provided with quite a bit of energy, for the moment.

---

Quote:

---

'I believe this [the overwhelming tendency for chemical reactions to move in the direction opposite to that required for the evolution of life] to be the most stubborn problem that confronts us—the weakest link at present in our argument [for the origin of life].' George Wald, 'The Origin of Life,' p. 50.

---

Quote:

---

'The conclusion from these arguments presents the most serious obstacle, if indeed it is not fatal, to the theory of spontaneous generation. First, thermodynamic calculations predict vanishingly small concentrations of even the simplest organic compounds. Secondly, the reactions that are invoked to synthesize such compounds are seen to be much more effective in decomposing them.' D. E. Hull, 'Thermodynamics and Kinetics of Spontaneous Generation,' Nature, Vol. 186, 28 May 1960, p. 694

---

Quote:

---

'The story of the slow paralysis of research on life's origin is quite interesting, but space precludes its retelling here. Suffice it to say that at present the field of origin of life studies has dissolved into a cacophony of conflicting models, each unconvincing, seriously incomplete, and incompatible with competing models. In private even most evolutionary biologists will admit that science has no explanation for the beginning of life.' Behe, 'Molecular Machines,' p. 30.

---

Quote:

---

I'm not ignorant. I can't add anything to things you say but saying that I disagree. But with ignorant I Mean that people are ignorant to any proves of evolution. Most of you say: That's not a proof.

---

Quote:

---

Most people denying evolution probably don't have biology(or physics, chemical) courses or are sleeping during those courses. That's easy to see. Fossils say enough to convince me evolution is the best theory. Otherwise search for books how the human evolved. From the Austroplithecus to the Homo Habilis to the the Homo Erectus to the Homo Sapiens.

---

Quote:

---

'But, as by this theory innumerable transitional form must have existed, why do we not find them imbedded in countless numbers in the crust of the earth?' Darwin, 'The Origin of Species,' p. 163

---

Quote:

---

'But fossil species remain unchanged throughout most of their history and the record fails to contain a single example of a significant transition.' David S. Woodruff, 'Evolution" The Paleobiological View,' 'Science,' Vol. 208 16 May 1980, p. 716.

---

Quote:

---

" Scientists behave the way the rest of us do when our beliefs are in conflict with the evidence. We become irritated, we pretend the conflict does not exist, or we paper it over with meaningless phrases."

---

Quote:

---

"The theory of evolution is universally accepted not because it can be proved by logical, coherent evidence to be true, but because the only alternative, special creation, is clearly incredible!" (Nature, vol. 124, p. 233, 1929)

---

Quote:

---

Look, you guys ARE NOT GOING TO FIND A SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR REJECTING EVOLUTION.-eK

---

Quote:

---

eK: If there was a valid one, then evolution would already have been rejected by the scientific community. Until one comes along, it will continue to stand as the best theory for explaining the diversity and unity in life we see around us.

---

Edited by: Forge315  at: 3/29/03 10:38:03 pm

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

First about the C14 Carbon Dating. You can't calculate the exact value. But tell me if it does matter if something is 40 million years old or 60 million years old. It's both very old.

---

Quote:

---

First of all, it's not creation science, there's no science in it.

---

Quote:

---

Our dating methods are imprecise, but not inherently flawed, and there's a ton more than just C14 dating.

---

Quote:

---

Why don't you guys start from a position of non-assumption. You assume that evolution is wrong, so you set out to disprove it and disregard any proof you're presented with.

---

Quote:

---

I even went so far as to think that creationism should be brought up in schools as an alternate theory. But then I flipped things around, and realized that that would be wrong - as it's not science, and evolution is. It would fit in a religion class, but not in a biology class.

---

Quote:

---

If Creationism would be true then how can you explain that once upon a time Dinosaurs lived? The only explanation is that they lived together with humankind but extincted. That's a pretty stupid thought. Only other explanation you could give is that God sometimes extincts certain species and creates new ones. That's even more stupid. The Dodo for example was extincted by humankind. And did you ever see new species coming from nowhere?!?!?

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Compare a Bible/Koran with a fairy tale. There's one big coincidence: all the stories seems to have morals inside of them. And all these stories can't be merged as one big story, simply because you would get conflicts(as Cazt2 implies).

---

Quote:

---

Example from the Bible(yes, I know this because I was raised as a Catholic): After Adam and Eva(the first living being) had to leave the Garden Of Eden they get a two sons(which makes no sense, as how do they know how to get kids?). These two sons gets jealous, blablabla. One son leaves and marries a woman(where does that woman comes from?!?!?!?).

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Our way of counting the years was not invented when Jesus Christ lived, but hundreds of years later

---

Quote:

---

Can someone point out what is the difference between a sect, a world religion and traditions in a primitive tribe somewhere in the jungle of Africa? I can't see the difference.

---

Quote:

---

i agree with dope's post on the first page in a way: The sooner religion is dropped, the better. It just screws things up. And also, read bible(or equivalent) for any religion - it's likely you'll find quite a few conflicts and impossibilities. There again, some things point in the reverse. It's best to be neutral, I think. –I don't know who posted this. Somebody removed it after I grabbed it.

---

Quote:

---

First of all, it's not creation science, there's no science in it. -eK

---

Quote:

---

Secondly, just because it explains everything doesn't mean it's right. -eK

---

Quote:

---

Why don't you guys start from a position of non-assumption. You assume that evolution is wrong, so you set out to disprove it and disregard any proof you're presented with.

Why not flip it around, assume it's wrong, but then set out to prove it right. It's always good to force yourself to see things differently. I've looked at creationist arguments -- I even went so far as to think that creationism should be brought up in schools as an alternate theory. But then I flipped things around, and realized that that would be wrong - as it's not science, and evolution is. It would fit in a religion class, but not in a biology class. -eK

---

Quote:

---

Religion is gambling. Religion already comes from the Stone Age. They see lightning and gamble that a Supernatural Force, called a God is angry on them, without examining what the real reason is. That's where religion is still based on. -therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

If Creationism would be true then how can you explain that once upon a time Dinosaurs lived? The only explanation is that they lived together with humankind but extincted. That's a pretty stupid thought. Only other explanation you could give is that God sometimes extincts certain species and creates new ones. That's even more stupid. The Dodo for example was extincted by humankind. -therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

And did you ever see new species coming from nowhere?!?!? -therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

And if you think that without religion there would be no morals: I don't believe in any religion, don't smoke, don't drink, am always pollite to anyone, am a pacifist, eat about everything, am social and work on my condition. Sounds like a prosper life to me(unless you're a vegatarian and believes eating meat is bad). -therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

I havn't had time to read everything here recently, but I have to say that there is planty of scientific evidence for evolution. -Grelphy

---

Quote:

---

For starters: Darwin's Galapagos finches. The finches on each of the Galapagos islands are slightly different from each other (and going extinct, but that's something else entirely). Each is very well suited to its island. For example, the finches on an island that happens to have lots of nut trees have big, strong beaks to crack nuts; finches on an island full of berry bushes have smaller beaks, because they don't need the strong beaks. The big-beaked finches have evolved slightly from the other, "older" finches. -Grelphy

---

Quote:

---

The very idea of evolution is preposterous and unscientific.

---

Quote:

---

The Christian faith is not based upon 'lightning from supernatural forces'. It is based on the Bible.

---

Quote:

---

It's very simple. God created dinosaurs on the sixth day along with the other animals. Noah took them on the ark as God commanded to save them from the coming flood and apparently most have died off since then. There is an abundance of evidence that humans have had interaction with them. Everything from cliff paintings in the Southern U.S. to carvings on the walls of Babylon.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

And nowhere in the Bible is a reference to any sort of creature like that.

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: therealdopefish
Oh, yeah thank's for telling me that his name is Cain. But where the hell do you get the fact that Adam lived 930 years old?

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Quit putting the shoe on the other foot & give us a strait answer.

---

Quote:

---

Actually visa versa for that first part, & for the last part:
PROVE IT!!!

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

And Djaser, saying 'somewhere' is much more unprecise than using C14 for determing how old something is.

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

Edited by: baabis  at: 4/1/03 7:06:52 pm

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

Quote:

---

First: my opinion about the bible is that it's a rather boring fantasy book written by some whacko a few thousand years ago.

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

Djaser, how can I take you guys seriously? I mean, none of you have any clue about evolution and refuse to change that.

You're a joke!

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Edited by: Djaser  at: 4/3/03 4:06:19 pm

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Baabis, I dont recall the bible saying the best state for a human is to be knowing nothing.

---

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

Edited by: baabis  at: 4/3/03 8:18:18 pm

Quote:

---

My, how we twist to serve our desires.

You people disgust me. How you can be so stupid as to refute a firmly establish scientific theory on the moronic grounds that you just simply don't like it --- it escapes me. I've built my life on building a set of beliefs based on seeing two sides, and taking dips in both back and forth until the truth became obvious.

I started out a catholic, then I became an athiest, now I'm agnostic.

People faced with the obvious truth of evolution, it's sense -- who then deny it, not on scientific grounds, but on simple refusal to believe and think that's enough.... people like you make me sick. There is no compelling evidence against evolution, just a bunch of non-scientists wishing it away and a braindead childlike populace that just eats it up.

You don't even try to question your beliefs, that's what makes me mad. We're all wrong at some point on something, but if you go through life, and never question your own beliefs....

I'm so infuriated with people like that, because it's people like that who make me hate this world, and I don't like hating this world, I prefer enjoying it.

This is partly why I didn't want to have this debate, because of people who, for no good reason, picked a side. You can see it on the pre-evolution side. Stupid arguments from people who believe in evolution not because it's right, but because it's assumed that it goes against religious beliefs.

Take a moment and wonder if maybe you're wrong! Question things. Jump from one side to the other and resolve the interal conflict over time. For christ's sake, don't always eat what's fed you.

---

Quote:

---

Second: Uppy, about mathematics.
You replied to someone(therealdopefish?) about not believing in anything that can't be measured or seen or something, and used mathematics as an example of something that can't be measured.
Mathematics is a model that we use to make living easier. Note: MODEL, not anything concrete.
For example if you have 250 apples that you have to divide betweem a group of 46 evenly, you'll have a hard time approximating how many apples each should get without mathematics.

---

Quote:

---

And as for god/religion, religion is a model in it's own way. The thing wrong with it is that it's based solely on blind belief, and it doesn't really explain anything. It just says that stuff is and you need to believe in that.
Science on the other hand, provides a model that it's not based solely on blind belief, but has "proof". Proof as in the net of hypotheses and theories based on perceptions that everyone can see with their own eyes - hypotheses and theories that all make sense and support each other and thus make science the most reasonable model for everything.

---

Quote:

---

Don't you just love the word 'model' ?

---

Quote:

---

First of all neutrality is possible: these people do not have any religion; they don't spend their time on thinking about why they live. They just live. I used to be one and some of my friends have no opinion about any religion. And this group is growing.

---

Quote:

---

And that's a bad thing?

---

Quote:

---

We know that Forge, but why did God want them to not comprehend good and evil?
It can't be so that they wouldn't sin, because they did anyway...so what reason was there?

---

Quote:

---

Evolution has evidence, religion has none. End of story.
PS. note: evidence, not proof.

---

Quote:

---

eK: How you can be so stupid as to refute a firmly establish scientific theory on the moronic grounds that you just simply don't like it

---

Quote:

---

eK: You don't even try to question your beliefs, that's what makes me mad. We're all wrong at some point on something, but if you go through life, and never question your own beliefs....

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: Xtraverse
We know that Forge, but why did God want them to not comprehend good and evil?

It can't be so that they wouldn't sin, because they did anyway...so what reason was there?

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

Uppy, there's really no point in me trying to explain things because when I do, you guys don't listen.

---

Quote:

---

You guys seriously have no idea how evolution works.

---

Quote:

---

Read about it.

---

Quote:

---

Don't just say it's wrong because you don't like the idea that something makes the standard belief in the bible a bit harder to swallow.

---

Quote:

---

I'm not going to stand here and spit out what ever book I've read or course I've taken says about evolution.

---

Quote:

---

You're the ignorant one, you look it up.

---

Quote:

---

You think me calling you a moron is part of my argument? .....

---

Quote:

---

More like I'm just stating a fact seperate from the others.

---

Quote:

---

You ARE a moron.

---

Quote:

---

You are one of the worst arguers here,

---

Quote:

---

and the only people who think otherwise argue just as badly as you do. (ie. Forge).

---

Quote:

---

He thinks you're great because you repeat back what he has always believed - not because you validate your point.

---

Quote:

---

We know that Forge, but why did God want them to not comprehend good and evil?
It can't be so that they wouldn't sin, because they did anyway...so what reason was there?

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Science can only deal with the physical realm; what we can observer with our senses. To view science as the ultimate authority is a mistake, but science is merely a tool man can use. Hence, the concept of 'metaphysics.' Instead of dealing with a very limited field, such as history, or chemistry, it is used to explain the world as a whole. The Bible gives us an 'ultimate conceptual framework' used to make sense of the universe. The Biblical metaphysic is used as a foundation upon we can then place things such as science and ethics. eK was mistaken when he said that belief can't stand up to the rigors of science. I say that the opposite is true. Science without belief is impossible. The predictability of nature, for example. How do you account for that? The Christian belief is not a 'blind' one. It is based on the Bible and has evidence to back it up. I'll start posting some evidences that the Bible is infallible.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Anyway there has never been found any fossils of serpents with legs, so the Serpent always had no legs(if I recall the Bible the Serpent lost his legs because it betrayed Adam and Eve).

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by therealdopefish
Anyway there has never been found any fossils of serpents with legs, so the Serpent always had no legs(if I recall the Bible the Serpent lost his legs because it betrayed Adam and Eve).

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

But the Bible did say Snakes lost their legs because of it's betray. I was sure about that.

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

however my parents still bring me to church every week and force me to go to religion classes.

---

Quote:

---

Use a different model if you want to, but as you said before, when calculating bomb trajectories, two plus two must always equal four.

---

The suns were green, the spaceships tall
In ancient days before the fall
Of empires of Parlmtheon,
And Shikadine, who now beyond,
The Eastern stars have passed away,
Deep space was fair in DemOps' day
-A dirty copyright infringement

Quote:

---

More like I'm just stating a fact seperate from the others. You ARE a moron. You are one of the worst arguers here, and the only people who think otherwise argue just as badly as you do. (ie. Forge). He thinks you're great because you repeat back what he has always believed - not because you validate your point.

---

Quote:

---

Potassium-Argon dating: Based on the decay of K-40 into Ar-40. The ratio of K-40 to Ar-40 is compared and, using the decay rate of K-40, we're able to date the rock. Works for 100,000 - 2 Billion years ago.-eK

---

Quote:

---

Go, get informed, then I'll talk to you about it. I really have no interest in explaining all of evolution to you guys. Why can't you do that yourself? How can you stand to be so uninformed?

---

Quote:

---

So where in the Bible does it say that animals can't have evolved? Seriously?-Flaose

---

Quote:

---

He didn't say that; I did! -KeenEmpire

---

Quote:

---

In either case, I might make a post addressing probability soon. Don't worry; nothing like it has appeared inside any of these debates as of yet.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: Djaser
The bible says nothing about legs however it is not impossible that they meaned legs.

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

Genesis 1:21-26
"21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind, and it was so.25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and everything that creepeth on the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth across the earth."

---

Quote:

---

Ah, I've been expecting this. Actually, I was expecting it to come up in the 'Potter' thread.

---

Quote:

---

If you get pissed off that you have to go to church twice a year, that's pretty pathetic

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

In fact most people who claim to "believe" in a certain religion don't even know what that religion really means.

---

Quote:

---

You mean most kids? I think pretty much all adults that have a religion know what it means.

And its only fundamentalists that actually believe the stories in Genesis. Other Christians believe that those are stories used to explain things the people didn't know at the time.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

and eat everything people with the same beliefs feed them.

---

Quote:

---

I don't really understand why creationists attack dating techniques... I can understand evolution, but dating techniques?! Are you still so backwards that you want to believe that the world is 10,000 (or something like that) years old? If so - how could a single flaw in one dating technique that only affects some of the rocks tested negate the whole thing? The only way the world could be 10,000 years old would be if God made the earth appear to be older when he created it, planting fossils of long extint animals and evidence of pre-10,000 year ago human tools and cave art (we're talking modern humans from 20,000+ years ago).

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Only around 70-80% of the Christians knows why we celebrate Easter, Christmas and only about 40-50% knows why they have certain traditions. I don't have this from any source, but I live in a village which is pretty religious, so it's easy to see there.

---

Quote:

---

Depends on what you call time: human time, Gods time. Whatever my complainment is that people like YOU make things like carbon date 100% truestable. But nothing is you can't say that something is 100% true. Because you haven't been there. Science is great but it has proven numerous times that not everything they say was true. Or they re-change their opinion even back. Than how can you be so sure about carbon date?

---

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

Quote:

---

Umm, I never said Carbon Dating, or any other form of dating is 100% accurate, but it's mostly accurate. Our methods are quite precise (I'm using the scientific definition of precision, meaning reproducable and consistent) and in most cases, within the margin for error, quite accurate.

---

Quote:

---

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm stupid. If making me out to be stupid makes you feel more right about the way you see things, then I guess I understand why you'd label me as such.

---

Quote:

---

I find it likely that the main ideas of plate techtonics, that the earth's surfaced is composed of plates that move around to create moutains, oceanic rifts, etc, will survive any sort of change in the underlying theory. Considering the evidence they've gathered to back this up, locating all the seperate plates and where they've collided in the past, I find it unlikely that a completely different theory will suddenly pop up that will demolish the current one.

---

Quote:

---

Evolution is similar. It's been around even longer, over a hundred years without any solid evidence against it. The only weaknesses in Evolutions arguments are the unknowns -- those things that it has been unable to yet explain. I imagine that eventually many of those unknowns will be explained as more evidence for the theory is gathered.

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Edited by: Djaser  at: 4/6/03 6:09:44 pm

Quote:

---

I don't really understand why creationists attack dating techniques... I can understand evolution, but dating techniques?! Are you still so backwards that you want to believe that the world is 10,000 (or something like that) years old? If so - how could a single flaw in one dating technique that only affects some of the rocks tested negate the whole thing?

---

Quote:

---

The only way the world could be 10,000 years old would be if God made the earth appear to be older when he created it, planting fossils of long extint animals and evidence of pre-10,000 year ago human tools and cave art (we're talking modern humans from 20,000+ years ago).

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

i can scientifically prove that the earth is only about 6-7 thousand years old/evolution isn't true (and i know some of these have aalready been said somewhere, but still):

1st: the peppered moth thing- the peppered moths doesn't help the theory of evolution. so some moths changed colors to help camouflage themselves; that's an adaptation, not a moth changing into a bird.

2nd: biogenesis- biogenesis says that something living can NOT possibly come from something nonliving. even if you put a group of the top scientists together, they couldn't even create a blade of grass from nonliving matter.

3rd: comets- as the comets move in space, they gradually wear down. if the universe was billions of years old, we wouldn't have any comets left.

4th: the moon- the moon is slowly moving away from the earth at about 1 1/2 inches per year. even if the moon was touching the earth, it would be impossible for the universe to be billions of years old.

5th: the sun- the sun is gradually getting smaller by about 5 feet per hour. the heat the sun created billions of years ago would have been too intense for anything to survive.

6th: the sea- there isn't enough salt in the ocean for the world to be billions of years old. there isn't enough mud, either. if the world was billions of years old, the sea would be extremely salty and packed with mud

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: therealdopefish
I thought Adam was created by sand and only Eve was created by a living object

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

Baaba, just because someone is religious doesn't mean their stupid.

---

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

Quote:

---

That quote states that, at some point in time, God "made the beasts of the earth after his kind," not that God created them as they are now, and they absolutely never evolved. We know that God's beasts are not absolute, having found examples of extinct species. There is nothing suggesting, in that quote, that evolution might not also have occured.

---

Quote:

---

You talk about the problems with K-Ar dating - you're right, however, that's why they invented Ar-Ar dating, because it overcomes that problem.

---

Quote:

---

2nd: Yes, so far scientist haven't been able to create life. But according the Bible God created life from non-living objects(I thought Adam was created by sand and only Eve was created by a living object), so that doesn't prove creationism either.

---

Quote:

---

1st: Yes, some animals hardly evolved. Besides the living Coelacanth and some mollusks you have some extincted animals like the Ammonites who lived for millions of years without hardly any changes. And a moth changing evolving in a bird would take hundreds of million years as they're very different from each other. It's the same as saying that a fish would never evolve in a kangaroo.

---

Quote:

---

Moth and birds have the same, super distant ancestors. Insects are invertibrates...

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

try me.

---

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: Grelphy
Since the "intermediate" rabbits were outcompeted by the "finished product", they went pretty much extinct, leaving no "intermediate" specimens.

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

Here's a question for anyone in the know...I've heard that a horse can breed with a mule (and create a jack-ass?), is this true? Also, is the horse also able to breed with the zebra?

---

My Remixes: Here! Click here!

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

As for you Xtra...if the chihuahua was the mother, would the mother even survive the childbirth??? (what we need is an emotikeen for deep thought)

---

Quote:

---

Macroevolution or microevolution? As far as I have read, The Bible also says: "And there was evening and there was morning the first day." etc. Does this sound like God used millions of years?

---

Quote:

---

Of course it's still a rabbit.

Multiply these little changes over millions of years and you DO get new species.

You need to look at the big picture.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

It doesn't matter if it sounds like it or not -- the geological evidence supports the Earth being over 4 billion years old.

---

Quote:

---

Moth and birds have the same, super distant ancestors. Insects are invertibrates...-eK

---

Quote:

---

You are right, there is a difference between water and DNA. DNA is much, MUCH, more complex, thank you for supporting our view there.

---

Quote:

---

Dopefish, your last post doesn't really make sense due to the fact that there are quite a few people in the world
of different nationalities and origins, and, get this! They are still purely human beings! (unless of course your'e being racist )

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Dopefish, your last post doesn't really make sense due to the fact that there are quite a few people in the world
of different nationalities and origins, and, get this! They are still purely human beings! (unless of course your'e being racist)

---

The board is a mirror of the mind of the players as the moments pass. When a master studies the record of a game he can tell at what point greed overtook the pupil, when he became tired, when he fell into stupidity, and when the maid came by with tea.

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: Grelphy
Anyway, you have to admit that at some point genetic codes are too different for the creatures with them to reproduce. For the sake of simplicity, we'll set this at 50% similar, although it's obviously much higher than that.

.....

It will take about 181 generations for the genetic difference to reach the 50% point. If we arbitrarily say that a generation lasts 30 years, it will take about 5,455 years for a species to reach our 50% similarity breakpoint.

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

It seems to me that we're about genetically 98% similar to chimps (or is it a mouse, either way, it doesn't matter). Taking your .275% change per generation, then it should only take about 8 generations, or 264 years for two completely different species to be evolved.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Umm... have you heard of the Miller-Urey Electron Discharge Expiriment? Essentially, using a closed system including all elements found to have been on Earth during it's primordial, pre-life phase and exposing it to energy (electricity, heat) as one would find at the time in the form of lighning and extreme UV radiation.

The results, often duplicated, show that these conditions naturally produce all the building blocks we've found for life. Including all 20 major Amino Acids, DNA, RNA, Glucose, etc. The list is quite long. -eK

---

Quote:

---

How long do you believe the universe has existed Uppy? -Xtra

---

Quote:

---

The Bible is old-fashioned and dated, you know. –therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

3rd: Learn where comets come from. According to you comets were only created after the universe was created. But during that these billions of years new comets are created as well. –therealdopefish

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

I know I've been shot by his arrow before.

---

:moon Take that iD for not toasting the universe!

Quote:

---

It was only after he had tweaked his apparatus that amino acids were formed.

---

Quote:

---

In 1953, Stanley Miller, working with Harold Urey, combined the ideas of Aleksander Oparin and Harold Urey about the supposed atmosphere of the primitive earth by making a chamber with only hydrogen, water, methane, and ammonia.

---

The suns were green, the spaceships tall
In ancient days before the fall
Of empires of Parlmtheon,
And Shikadine, who now beyond,
The Eastern stars have passed away,
Deep space was fair in DemOps' day
-A dirty copyright infringement

Quote:

---

Well if you believe the Universe is 10,000 years old, then there's no hope. Because it's not 10,000 years old. Again, this isn't really debatable. I don't see how someone can believe something completely arbitrary and unsupported over something heavily supported by scientific data, but whatever. Believing the Earth is 10,000 years old is as silly as believing in Greek mythology.-eK

---

Quote:

---

How do you mean by "created after their own kind?"-KeenEmpire

---

Quote:

---

The only thing that frustrates me about you is your stupid ideas like birds and moths being related and now cats and dogs. You're one of the worst arguers for your side, and I don't feel threatened by your reasoning at all. More bored by it than anything..-eK

---

Quote:

---

Ever hear of edit? Don't keep replying to yourself. Yeesh.-eK

---

Quote:

---

First of all, they don't liquify their brain and everything as far as I know, that sounds silly and stupid. I'm sure they keep the same organs, but that's beside the point I want to make.-eK

---

Quote:

---

eK-and finally, as for evidence to the contrary of the universe being 10,000 years old. Holy sh*t there's a ton of it. First there's the geological evidence. Dating methods that have proved that the earth is around 4 billion years old.-edited

---

Quote:

---

As I've said millions of times already, if someone could disprove darwin evolution so easily, it would have been tossed out long long ago.-eK

---

Quote:

---

You have no buisiness talking about biology. If you debunk everything in science that disagrees with your unproved, evidenceless theory then you really have no right to talk about anything science related at all.

---

Quote:

---

I don't think anything short of God swooping down and giving you a good, hard smack on the face would convince you that you're wrong.

---

Quote:

---

I know I sure can't. Heck, you didn't even respond to any of the evidence I put forth (like the light thing) and instead reacted only to my use of the word sh*t, my possible lack of knowledge about insect biology (it's not like I've ever studied it, or even have a particular interest in it)-edited

---

Quote:

---

Lastly, It's not officially against the rules. But it's similar to spamming. You posted three times more than you had to.

---

Quote:

---

Actually, that would prove that you're wrong...

---

Quote:

---

Hey, I'm not an octopus, I can't get to everything at once! Although, maybe if I evolved six more arms...

---

The suns were green, the spaceships tall
In ancient days before the fall
Of empires of Parlmtheon,
And Shikadine, who now beyond,
The Eastern stars have passed away,
Deep space was fair in DemOps' day
-A dirty copyright infringement

Quote:

---

Aye, doubleposting is considered to be similar to spamming, and not tolerated in many boards. Even if you only make "two times more" posts that you "[had] to," it still gets very slightly annoying to read.

---

Quote:

---

As it is, if the statement were simply presumed to mean that the structures of dogs and cats (and etc.) were originally "mapped" after a "master creation plan" by God, evolution is still not ruled out.

---

Quote:

---

I dont believe man evolved. God may have allowed animals to evolve(Which I still do not believe), but not man.

---

Quote:

---

I was reading back through the thread and I just noticed this. Sorry 'bout that. I'm not sure as to exactly how old the universe is, but I can say that it is less than 10,000 years old.

---

Quote:

---

You have yet to answer my post about he existence of universal abstract entities. Until you do so sufficiently, you have no ground upon which to stand and point out supposed contradictions in the Christian faith and the creation theory because you can't even account for the existence of universal laws.

---

Quote:

---

What's wrong with this planet being as old as billions of years? Does that outrule the possible existence of God? Those "calculations" were done by the same people who claimed the earth is flat.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Do you live perhaps in the Hague in the Netherlands?

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

eK - No, of course not.
Creationism is unsubstantiated to begin with. By that I mean there's no conclusive evidence to back it up.
Doesn't mean it's false, just without any evidence of any weight. Nothing scientifically verifiable.

---

Quote:

---

Evolution seeks to discredit God

---

Quote:

---

Mutation and Natural Selection.

The primary catalysts for changes in all organisms over time. There are other forms of selection, like artificial, but those two are the primary causes for all evolutionary changes. –eK

---

Quote:

---

There is more than enough evidence proving the world is more than 7,000 years old. Granite can take upwards of 100,000 years to cool...if I had time I'd find some other stuff. –Xtra

---

Quote:

---

Not to mention most stars are too far off for the light to have gotten to us yet in a mere 10,000 years. Unless God created the universe to look older than it really is? I don't see why He would do that. –eK

---

Quote:

---

What post? I must have missed it. I have no time to find the page with that post. –Therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

Sexual reproduction is an excellent way to spread genes. If some "critter" somewhere has a certain "good" adaption, it is quickly spread throughout the population. This is assuming, of course, that the population of "critters" isn't chaste (which most "critters" aren't). –Grelphy

---

Quote:

---

Sexual reproduction is an excellent way to spread genes. If some "critter" somewhere has a certain "good" adaption, it is quickly spread throughout the population. This is assuming, of course, that the population of "critters" isn't chaste (which most "critters" aren't).

---

-----Djaser est un nation prétendue neutre mais, dans la réalité, il ne l'est pas car il n'arrête pas d'être envahie par les uns et sauvés par les autres.
Djaser est normalement régie par une féodalité...-----

Quote:

---

Seems to me that asexual reproduction is far more effecient...I don't think that we'd evolve the need to have sex just because it feels good.

---

Quote:

---

I see nothing scientific about evolution, it’s based off of the concept that things evolve which hasn’t been proven, so all you have are ideas about nothing;

Take America now, that’s what humanism has done to us; no one is quite sure what’s right or wrong, and it all just very sad.

---

Quote:

---

You have yet to answer my post about he existence of universal abstract entities. Until you do so sufficiently, you have no ground upon which to stand and point out supposed contradictions in the Christian faith and the creation theory because you can't even account for the existence of universal laws.

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

This statement is based on the assumption that light travels at a fixed speed and has not decreased over time. Several theories say that the speed of light has decreased over time. Decreased, that is, to such a degree that the speed of light would have been millions of times faster than it is today. Such theories would explain the apparent galaxies that are 'billions of light-years away.'-UppyII

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: Xtraverse
Maybe it's just Catholics, but most Christians I know believe in evolution. I suppose its because they're not fundamentalists, and believe stories like the seven-day creation were just stories to explain what people didn't know at that time.

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

eK-I talked about frogs, who go through a simpler version of metamorphisis, and about why metamorphasis might be selected for by nature. No other explanation should be needed.-edit: explanation

---

Quote:

---

It won't be long before they start saying that Jesus wasn't actually the Son of God, just your everyday prophet...after all, how could a spirit (which Catholics believe God is) create a child?

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

There's no evidence that it went faster, only hypothesis. –eK

---

Quote:

---

But anyway, wouldn't the rapid expansion of the universe (an expansion that's accelerating) make up for this. –eK

---

Quote:

---

Also to UppyII: if you think the world is not that old, then explain me how coals are made. Wasn't that made in the Carbon Era 300 millions years ago? –therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

Oops, almost forgot. OK, let me say it this way: God is unrealistic and all of you guys take it way to seriously.

---

Quote:

---

What you want to intend to say(in simplistic way) is that to measure something you need something that does not exist, because you can't see that. We use numbers with a decimal/lineair system. Yes, we could also have used an exponentional/binair system. But basically it stays the same. If I see 2 people, I know what 2 is. But the reason I used the word measured in here is that otherwise I will get some stupid replies on it like "but you can't see air, but you know it's there". Hey that was in a Dexter Cartoon. –therealdopefish

---

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

-- Pinch, Pinch... BLIND, Clamp! --

RKP series is cursed: people keep comparing it with Isis 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by: therealdopefish
And how about the blind indestine(don't know if this is the correct translation. I live in Holland and it's called 'blinde darm' there. May be Djaser knows the correct translation?)? What's the purpose of that? It can only cause inflammation.

---

--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.

Quote:

---

And about universal abstract entities: we measure with things which are from things we see. Like there's somewhere (don't know where) the original meter bar. A bar which is said is the actual meter. And with that fact you can create any other entity. Time entities can be made by using the speed of sound in air with a pressure(speed of sound in the air with a certain pressure is constant). Pressure entities can be made by counting the number of molecules in the air. Entities involving Voltage, Magnetism etc. can all be found by the number of molecules/electrons etc. So scientists do measure with something which does exist. –therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

Also another fact we are not entirely evolved: Tell me why we do have a small bone sticking out on our back above our butt. Looks like a tail had been there. –therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

And how about the blind indestine(don't know if this is the correct translation. I live in Holland and it's called 'blinde darm' there. May be Djaser knows the correct translation?)? What's the purpose of that? It can only cause inflammation. –therealdopefish

---

Quote:

---

Coal is the result of plants that died at the end of the Paleozoic Era during the Carboniferous Period. I took 300 million years for the plants that died during that time to turn into coal. –eK

---

Quote:

---

Uppy thinks a lot of stupid things.

I'm just filling in the specifics. -eK

---

Quote:

---

Coal is the result of plants that died at the end of the Paleozoic Era during the Carboniferous Period. I took 300 million years for the plants that died during that time to turn into coal.

---