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Author
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Comment
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 51
(3/14/01 10:53 pm)
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Updating my editor
Some of you have tried my editor as it is, and most seemed to like it. (If you haven't tried it, click on the banner below and download it from my site -- it edits keen 1, 2 and 3 levels).
I'd started rewriting it for increased robustness and speed etc., but I've had few delays. I've also thought of taking the time to work out the info necessary to edit Keen 4, 5, 6 (and maybe Dreams) levels before finishing the editor. What does everyone think? Also, I've been debating whether it should support Windows or DOS or both. If you have an opinion on this second question, just reply.
Results (total votes = 40):
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It's fine for now -- do 4, 5, 6 in another version. |
23 / 57.5% |  |
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Keen 1, 2, and 3 editing is all we ever need. |
3 / 7.5% | |
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Make it edit them all before you release it. |
4 / 10.0% | |
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Stuff 1, 2, and 3 -- we only want an editor for 4, 5, and 6. |
5 / 12.5% | |
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What is Commander Keen? |
5 / 12.5% | |
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Vote Now
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VolteFace 
Vortininja
Posts: 158
(3/15/01 12:31 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
Well, although it IS possible to edit Keen GG\AAMBS\KD maps, it may not be possible to make the game accept the levels, so I say only Keens 1-3.
| This message was
posted by Volte-Face. I am a member of Vaportech International. Vaportech
International is a group of people who create freeware PC games. Vaportech
International is (for the time being) being run by The Soggy Mop. |
I (junior@kwic.com)
am 13 years old. I live in Ontario, Canada. I enjoy programming in Quick
Basic and Visual Basic. I also spend a lot of time playing games like
Commander Keen and Doom. |
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Snaily 
Vortininja
Posts: 127
(3/15/01 7:03 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
Well, I think that 4, 5 and 6 should be another version. But we still want them though!
________
¨@_ |
adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 52
(3/15/01 9:08 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
Volte-Face: Obviously any 4-6 editor would have to make sure the levels could be played properly -- there's really no point in making such an editor otherwise.
I do believe this can be done, despite statements saying that the EXE must be recompiled -- perhaps it may need some ugly hacks, but that's life.
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Snortimer 
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 667
(3/15/01 10:21 pm)
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Re: Updating my editor
I voted for the 1st option, mostly because I'm afraid if you try to tackle too much at once the project will be discontinued.
However, I think that instead of making a separate one for 4-6, you should first release a 1-3 editor, and then some time later make an "Editor 2" which will allow us to edit all the Keen games. Or perhaps the "all Keens" would be editor 3, and editor 2 would be just 4-6 (and Keen Dreams).
"You cannot pass!" he said.
With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed. |
adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 57
(3/18/01 1:06 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
Well, the consensus seems to be that I should finish off the 1, 2 and 3 editor and release that before working on the 4,5,6 editor, fair enough. So that's what I'll do.
Aside, I finally managed to find the TED5 source code and downloaded it, and a quick look shows that it has at least 90% of the information I need to create a 4,5,6 editor, including info on decompressing the graphics (egagraph.ck4). So that will likely save lots of time for the 4,5,6 editor.
Oh, one last note: I originally called my editor KeenEdit, being unaware of the existing editor by that name (or similar enough to cause confusion) -- anyway, it's being renamed to KeenWright; although the beta that's available right now for download is not actually called that, it will probably reduce confusion if it's referred to as KeenWright. And Cho'gall or eK: could one of you change the title on cc314 from "Andy Durdin's Keen Editor" to "KeenWright", thanks.
Andrew
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VolteFace
Vortininja
Posts: 168
(3/18/01 2:56 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
You should call it Commander Keen Studio. It was the name of my fully-functional editor (plus some preliminary GFX decompression of Keen123) until I reformatted and wiped it out accidentally... :( You can have it if you like though (the name).
| This message was
posted by Volte-Face. I am a member of Vaportech International. Vaportech
International is a group of people who create freeware PC games. Vaportech
International is (for the time being) being run by The Soggy Mop. |
I (junior@kwic.com)
am 13 years old. I live in Ontario, Canada. I enjoy programming in Quick
Basic and Visual Basic. I also spend a lot of time playing games like
Commander Keen and Doom. |
Edited by: VolteFace at: 3/17/01 9:56:58 pm
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The NEW spaz 
Vortininja
Posts: 71
(3/18/01 9:19 pm)
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............
Sounds great Adurdin !
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KeenCommander
Vortininja
Posts: 79
(3/23/01 8:36 pm)
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no no no NO!
I want a keen 4-6 editor NOW! Heh, sorry, but that's what I'm REALLY waiting for
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Flaose
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 353
(3/26/01 11:58 am)
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Re: no no no NO!
Quote:
And Cho'gall or eK: could one of you change the title on cc314 from "Andy Durdin's Keen Editor" to "KeenWright"
And I suppose I can't do it? 
Yeah, it's done
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 63
(3/26/01 12:29 pm)
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Re: Thanks, Flaose
Whoops... forgot about you. Anyway, thanks Flaose.
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 65
(3/27/01 11:33 pm)
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Re: Thanks, Flaose
Oh, Flaose: Sorry to bother you, but could you also correct the description? It says that it can only edit Keen 1 levels, but it can actually edit Keen 1, 2, and 3 levels.
Thanks.
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Flaose
Japanese Poo on a Stick
Posts: 354
(3/30/01 8:29 pm)
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Re: Thanks, Flaose
right...done
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 78
(4/11/01 2:29 pm)
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Yesssss!!
As the Easter break begins tomorrow (i.e. no need to get up early so I don't miss lectures), I decided to put in a little more time trying to figure out how the Keen level files were stored--and I'm very pleased to say that I now know all the information needed to compress and decompress, and *create* or *edit* Keen 4, 5, 6 (and presumably Dreams) levels!!!
So that's looking cool. The big help in this area was.....Wolfenstein 3D source code, as it used the same routines for compressing level data: and from it I found out that I had to un-Carmack-compress the level first, and then un-RLE-compress it. And it worked!
So despite the poll, I'm really thinking heavily about doing the editor for all Keen levels; as the Keen 1-3 level format is basically a subset of the Keen 4-6 format.
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XkyRauh2001 
Grunt
Posts: 19
(4/11/01 7:35 pm)
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Congratulations, Adurdin!
sounds like you've got big plans in your mind ;-) best wishes in accomplishing them! one thing that's a curiousity to me is the use of music in the levels--i.e. if i want a Keen 5 level with "Make it Tighter" will i have to replace one of the levels with that song? (i.e. one of the levels with fuses) ? Or have you not discovered that information yet?
either way, i'm sure everyone is excited and eager--but please take your time with it :-) quality is important to all of us.
--Xky
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forge
Vortininja
Posts: 56
(4/11/01 10:50 pm)
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Happy! And thankful!
I’m getting excited!
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 79
(4/12/01 1:28 am)
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Re: Happy! And thankful!
As a short answer to your question, Xky: the info on which song to play in which level is not stored in the level file (gamemaps.ck?), nor is some other information, such as the name of the level that you see in the game, and things like that -- they're all stored in keen?e.exe.
Anyway, I'm now turning my mind to decoding the graphics files -- with those, that'll be 90% (at least) of what people will want to be able to edit in the levels (changing the graphics is an option I haven't considered yet).
Andrew
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XkyRauh2001
Grunt
Posts: 20
(4/12/01 2:38 am)
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Sounds great, either way :-)
Whatever you can manage, it's definitely a step or three above what we've got now. As for changing the graphics or avaliable enemies, i wouldn't worry too much about it. Half the fun would be just the creative organization of a level.
For example, someone with a slightly evil flair might redesign parts of Miragia, so that you have to go thru a new, re-arranged area in order to flip a switch so you can get your Wetsuit... something like that. Still others could do a complete remodel of the Perilous Pit... after all, it's just a big hole in the ground, right?
Personally i think that it's good that you retain some of the limits. Things would get ugly if there were more Wisemen than necessary, more fuses than necessary, more second-biggest-sandwiches-in-the-universe than necessary, and other such bothers.
We'll be able to adapt to whatever you give us, no problem :-) Keep up the good work, dude. You rule!
--Xky
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 80
(4/12/01 7:23 am)
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Update
OK, I spent some more time today and wrote a little app to dump all the levels into a (lossy) text-file format: I've put a couple of them up on my website.
Then I turned my attention to egagraph.ck4; I found it was Huffman compressed, that the dictionary for the compression was buried in Keen4e.exe (not hard to find, though), and that the the graphics were separated into some 4700 chunks -- I fooled around a bit and was able to decompress and display chunk 7 (I chose it because it was a nice size at 20k), and it turned out to be a picture used in the Help menu (I put it up at my site also).
So it looks like I'm getting somewhere, and faster than I expected. The source to TED5 has been handy, but the real timesaver was the source and binaries for Wolfenstein 3D -- as the graphics and levels are compressed and ordered almost the same.
Anyway, enough of the technical details -- anyone who wants to know exactly where I'm at can email me. But I won't be doing any more before the weekend's over, as I have some pressing reports to write for Uni.
Andrew
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VolteFace
Vortininja
Posts: 199
(4/12/01 10:19 pm)
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Re: Update
Sorry man, but the guys at the 3DR BB are way ahead of you:
www.3drealms.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=001278
There's a program that extracts every sprite and graphic in the game into PCX files... but first you must use UNLZEXE to decompress the keen4e.exe file.
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 81
(4/13/01 9:34 am)
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Re: Update
Thanks for letting me know, Volte-face!
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The NEW spaz
Vortininja
Posts: 89
(4/20/01 9:25 pm)
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..
:-/ People can start creating Keen4 levels now.. but if they only could be created without TED. I think TED isn't very easy in use.
There should get a Keen4 editor for windows.
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 94
(4/21/01 8:51 am)
Reply
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Re: ..
I agree that TED5 isn't all that easy to use (because it was a development tool, not an end-user tool).
That's why, despite the results of the poll, I'm working on making an editor to edit *all* the Keen games (including Dreams).
The editor will initially be released for DOS and Windows, and probably for Linux afterward.
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JR Ewing2000
Grunt
Posts: 11
(4/29/01 6:43 pm)
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Re: Update
I'm kind of curious, when will this editor be released if everything goes like it should?
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adurdin
Grunt
Posts: 4
(4/30/01 3:42 am)
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Re: Update
As soon as it's ready, basically. I really can't predict when it will be finished.
However, my plan is to get the bottom-level basic functionality in and going, make that available, then add in the extra bits. I will also post (in this thread, prolly) updates as I go.
Andrew
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Frenkel
Grunt
Posts: 19
(6/24/01 12:40 pm)
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Other Games
I think you should make an editor for most of the Ted5 games.
I tried Keenedit 1.0beta on
Dangerous Dave in the Haunted Mansion
Hovertank
Paragon
Rescue Rover
Shadow Knights
Slordax
And it al worked.
I think it is quite easy to support this in your editor, because you only have to make the tiles/graphics look good for every game, and some games use linking like in Keen 4 when you press up and you go into a house.
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 69
(6/25/01 1:21 pm)
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Re: Other Games
Well, it's a good idea, but frankly those other games don't really interest me :)
But when my editor is done (to a reasonable amount, anyway), I'll be releasing the source code as well, so that you or someone else could add that support in.
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rrian
Grunt
Posts: 2
(8/9/01 3:26 pm)
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Re: Updating my editor
I think that your Keen 1, 2, and 3 editor is great. A Keen Dreams, 4, 5, and 6 would be better, but only as separate programs. A Keen Dreams, 4, 5, and 6 editor would be great for the people that don't have a lot of programing knowledge. I would start a new Keen Dreams, 4, 5, and 6 editor, and finish the old one later, cause the old one's fully functional.
rrian
Commander Keen Infinity
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Grelphy 
Vortininja
Posts: 144
(3/17/03 8:42 pm)
Reply
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Re: Updating my editor
Hey, maybe you should fix some of the bugs in keenwrite, too. And add copy/past support... I get really crazy doing multi-tile bgrounds tile by tile... 
You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3
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0 UNFLEEXABLE 0 
Vortininja
Posts: 313
(3/23/03 1:03 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
that's already in KeenEdit.
Why do you always dig up old topics?
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Xtraverse
Stranded Fish
Posts: 1769
(3/23/03 1:06 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
That's not in KeenEdit, unless andy gave you some version that wasn't publicly released.
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Grelphy
Vortininja
Posts: 187
(3/23/03 6:47 pm)
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Re: Updating my editor
Hmm... This really was old. I wondered.
It was at the top of thepage; too much trouble to check the date 
Stop replying to old polls!!!
You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3
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Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 832
(3/24/03 2:06 pm)
Reply
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Re: Updating my editor
Perhaps he was talking about the original KeenEdit by Anthony Haubold (sp?).
--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs. |
Grelphy
Vortininja
Posts: 203
(3/24/03 8:28 pm)
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Re: Updating my editor
Come to think of it, that does have copy/paste. But it's... Well...
Obsolete. I'm not going into details.
P.S, Unfleex, are you actually using text-keenedit to edit your levels? @_@
You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3
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KeenRush 
Garg
Posts: 2781
(3/25/03 4:57 am)
Reply
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Re: Updating my editor
Actually, if I remember correct, it was the first Keen level editor I ever tried.. I made a couple of levels with that, many with KMO2 then, and now I use KeenEdit by adurdin..
Greetings from Bloogton Tower! |
0 UNFLEEXABLE 0
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 500
(4/22/03 3:09 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
Quote:
P.S, Unfleex, are you actually using text-keenedit to edit your levels? @_@
Whoa! Was there was a text version?
I use the graphical one! (If that's what u meant)
:moon Take that iD for not toasting the universe! |
Flaose
Pooper, King of the Slugs
Posts: 969
(4/22/03 7:19 pm)
Reply
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Re: Updating my editor
It was an old editor, not made by Andy...
--------------------
Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs. |
Grelphy
Vortininja
Posts: 258
(4/22/03 11:58 pm)
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Re: Updating my editor
Andy's keenedit (keenwrite) doesn't have a "copy/paste" function... or if it does, it isn't in the documentation. I'm going to try some likely keys, but I'm pretty sure that there is no copy/paste in keenwrite.
Maybe Unfleex has gotten TED5 to work on keens 1/2/3/...
EDIT: I checked. "c" is a hot key for a preset tile, and nothing else does anything.
The original text-keenedit should be available on CC314, for those who are interested.
You and all those other mental wimps deserve to die!
-Mortimer Mcmire in Commander Keen 3
Edited by: Grelphy at: 4/23/03 12:02:04 am
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adurdin
Wormouth
Posts: 735
(4/23/03 7:48 am)
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Re: Updating my editor
No, it doesn't have copy/paste; but implementing that ought not to be too hard, if anyone is sufficiently interested. If enough people bug me about it, I might see to it myself (although I'm quite busy at the moment, so it'd have to wait a few weeks)
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