Let me say this differently than I did before...

Public Commander Keen Forum > Unofficial Keen Games > Let me say this differently than I did before...
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Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/26/00 1:00:42 am) Reply	Let me say this differently than I did before... What do you want to see in a new Commander Keen game? I'm taking suggestions for what will be the most original (don't argue, eK, I said original, not best) CK game ever! it will be a *l..o..n..g* time before it's even started, but I just want to see what people want to see in this game. Long live the Keen! Edited by Pimento at: 5/26/00 5:45:19 am
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/26/00 10:48:03 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... I'm guessing that you guys will want pogo. Ledge-grabbing and shooting up and down are also features that you would want and Isis doesn't have. Definitely an isometric view and a fast engine... Fullscreen with the same size character as the originals? By the way, do you guys like my cartoon character over there on the left? Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International)
StevenVI Grunt (5/26/00 11:22:08 pm) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... "Definitely an isometric view" Whoa whoa whoa whoa... don't you mean an oblique view? If I'm mixing the two up I'll probably look like a moron, but... Isometric is 30 degree angles for the width and depth and straight up and down lines for the height. In other words, it has one corner flush with the viewpoint. If you've played Mystic Towers, the view looks like that. Oblique has more room for variance, it has one face flush with the viewpoint and uniform angles going in a certain direction to show the depth. If more of the top or bottom view is prefered, the angle should be larger, if a better view of the right or left side is prefered, the angle should be smaller. That's how Keen 4-6 are. Enough of the lecture on isometric and oblique drawings... yes, full screen definately, I'd prefer a resolution of 320x200, but that's just me... Heh... I might as well advertise for my pictures... go to my website, or for the exact url, www.crosswinds.net/~stevenvi/drawn.html. It's got some pictures that I've drawn on it, I can think about one that's got an isometric view for the most part. For an isometric picture, though, the "camera" would have to go beyond the ceiling, if one exists, and I like to draw houses and stuff, so that wouldn't look right... blah blah blah, someone outta tell me to shut up right about now... -Steve http://stevenvi.cjb.net
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/27/00 1:36:18 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... So far, we have pogo ledge-grabbing up, down, left, and right shooting oblique viewpoint 320x200 fullscreen no sticky ceilings no "accidentally" exitting the level cheats I need more sugestions! Sheesh, look at how many people have read this topic but not replied! Shame, shame... Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International) Edited by Pimento at: 5/27/00 2:16:19 pm
Snortimer Grunt (5/27/00 2:43:32 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... Well, about the resolution, I think that it should at most and at least be the resolution that was in the 4-6 original keen games. I don't know if that's 640x480 or 320x200 resolution, but you should definitely have one of those, not those annoying (in my opinion) games where the characters are in 800x600 resolution, which makes them WAY too small (after the style of ck2000, the first unofficial keen game ever finished). The point of the small characters, people, was so that as much stuff as possible will fit on the screen. Now that we know how to make the games scroll, there is no need to make the characters that small. A "big" keen is ok if you are just in some special part of the story where you enter a small house, but not when the picture actually scrolls; it's too hard to see approaching enemies. BTW Are you going to do this in CnC? “Long they laboured in the regions of Eä, which are vast beyond the thought of Elves and Men, until in the time appointed was made Arda...” --Valaquenta, The Silmarillion
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/27/00 3:16:49 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... Well, not exactly. CNC advanced (MMF). Same company made it and everything. Yes, I can do everything that I've listed so far seamlessly. Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International)
eK Grunt (5/27/00 4:42:31 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... Your getting Isometric and Oblique confused. I've never heard of an oblique viewpoint (though I have had geometry, I do know what and oblique triangle is), but K4-6&D used an ISOMETRIC view point. So, Pimento has finally revieled his ultimate weapon. Here I was thinking he'd finally found a programmer, but nope, it's a new "advanced" version of CnC. @#%$ Pimento! No wonder you though VT was gonna become so huge! ----------------------- Co-Designer and artist for: "Commander Keen: The Mystery of Isis II" http://members.aol.com/dml1001 ----------------------- Homepage: http://www.drigon.com/~ek Rarely updated, very old content, only thing good there is my art and my story, which I think needs to be redone because it was written in 8th grade and sucks now.
Ilsoap Grunt (5/27/00 6:33:10 am) Reply	Enough already!!! Quit it putting Pimento down for not actually using a programming language in VaporTech games!!! It's just a game! We aren't actually making money from these games, and not many people are actually going to play the games we create. They're basically just practice, in case any one of use wants to get into game design (that's how I see it anyways). Speaking of which, how many people do you expect will actually play Isis?
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/27/00 10:40:49 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... Just so he tries hard to make it popular, over 1,617 people have played the demo of Lost in Time. Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International)
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/27/00 11:08:34 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... If you didn't notice, I put some more stuff into the list of stuff to have. the "no sticky ceilings" and "no accidentally exitting playfield" are just bugs I'll need to implement a fix for. And for cheats... I can easily do them, but not in the traditional way. I need ideas for what old cheats to use. Of course, we'll also want to make some of our own... Do you prefer straight lines for the ground like in all of the Commander Keen games so far, or do you prefer bumpy ground, like in this screenshot: AND do you want things like springs, fans, ice, and other stuff that affect movement? Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International)
Flaose Grunt (5/27/00 1:11:14 pm) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... For bumpy and straght lines, they should change depending on the environment (new buildings should be straight, but outdoors should be bumpy, so should crumbling buildings).
StevenVI Grunt (5/27/00 4:59:37 pm) Reply	Isometric/Oblique Geometry has nothing to do with it, a better class to take in school would be Drafting. You'd get to learn about different viewpoints for drawings. I have now verified it, Keen 4-6 have an OBLIQUE view, not isometric. So what's with this new format for Commander Keen games with an isometric view? I never knew that there was such a demand for isometric games. Personally, I don't really care for viewpoints like that, and I haven't heard anyone else say that they would prefer a Keen game that looks totally different from other ones. In fact, a game like that would suck big time. I don't think I've ever seen a platform game with an isometric viewpoint, so if you're trying to be a first, then go right ahead. But if you're planning on it looking like Keen 4-6, then correct what you've been saying before and say an "oblique" view, not isometric, because it isn't isometric... Imagine if I said I had a tower computer, but I really had a desktop computer, the picture in your head would look one way, but in real life it looks totally different because towers and desktops look different. It's the same for isometric and oblique, they look totally different. ...enough of that lecture... I'm right, you're wrong, heh . -Steve http://stevenvi.cjb.net
eK Grunt (5/27/00 6:59:40 pm) Reply	Re: VT IS GOD Whatever (about oublique, I know what isometric is) But anyway. Pimento was making this big fuss like VT was going to be the biggest thing since the New World, and it's all just based around a new version of CnC? I've never heard of anyone making games with CnC becoming popular, and I doubt VT, of all things, would achieve that. I'm not getting on Pimento for not having a programmer, but he acted like with this new CnC that VT was going to dominate everything, and now it's been proven (IMO) an empty boast. I'm sure this new version is very capable, but it'll never be the same. ----------------------- Co-Designer and artist for: "Commander Keen: The Mystery of Isis II" http://members.aol.com/dml1001 ----------------------- Homepage: http://www.drigon.com/~ek Rarely updated, very old content, only thing good there is my art and my story, which I think needs to be redone because it was written in 8th grade and sucks now.
chogall Grunt (5/27/00 9:25:12 pm) Reply	Re: VT IS GOD I agree that bragging one's merits before they are done is risky in case things don't go as planned. About CnC, I think the reason so many games made with it look horrible is that people think "Cool! A game creating tool! I can make a super game in 5 minutes now!". Games made in CnC can be good, but it requires a lot of work (graphics, levels and such). If one works enough on it, people might not even notice that the game is made in CnC. There are two good examples: The Rule of a Yorp's Supper, and the second episode of the Spork trilogy (I've only seen screenshots but man, they look promising)! The reason those games (at least Ilsoap's which I've actually played) are that good even though they're made in CnC is that the creators actually did some work! -- Tore T.S. (AKA Cho'gall) torets@bigfoot.com ICQ number: 65694277 - PGP Key ID: 0x14C745FE
Ilsoap Grunt (5/27/00 11:49:02 pm) Reply	Thanks!!! Thanks for the vote of confidence chogall! Pimento, I am very interested in what fix you discover for sticky ceilings. That's something that I have very much wondered how to fix myself (and that I have so far not been able to avoid).
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/27/00 11:50:09 pm) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... The fix is sitting in your mailbox. Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International)
Ilsoap Grunt (5/28/00 5:40:29 am) Reply	Thanks! I'll implement it right away (although I don't see how it will work for the collisions on the sides).
Pimento Vorticon Elite (5/28/00 10:44:14 am) Reply	Re: Let me say this differently than I did before... Just make some objects that stay to the side of him, and edit the events so the work in other directions too. Long live the Keen! (and VaporTech International)
pleitorian Grunt (5/28/00 1:28:49 pm) Reply	CNC Chogall, glad to see someone took my point about CNC seriously, though I can't say I've seen any of these games you claim are good, so I can't comment on those in particular. However, the vast majority of the gamecreation games are sloppy and even massive quantities of work can't fix a lot of the things that happen, unfortunately. That's when you need a real programmer. Another problem is art: you can only draw with a small palette in those creation utilties where a programmed game will have its own Gfx handlers which can be changed & edited whereas with CNC you're stuck with the one you're given. Another bummer about CNC,TGF,KNP,MMF: they crash a LOT, at least what I've seen. I can't run CNC games very well on my comp (400MHZ P2 128MbRAM 8Mb Video) ... they always bomb. Well, Isis occasionally bombs on me too but I think those were patched up. I think the bottom line is that a CNC type game can be enjoyable with a lot of work but it can't match a full 'scratch' game because you're limited to a few commands. In a 'scratch' game you write everything ground-up and can add/delete/tweak, etc. If something can't be done you just make it. I think VT will continue to take flack because most of its projects don't take a serious approach, they're just games for the sake of games... they need plots and effort. Hey, if there is a game downloadable that is promising, let me know and I'll check it out. There was one good KNP game I saw although it only had 3 levels, that was the space shooter Gracillis V which I think came with KNP. It was kind of easy and the gfx were a little weak but I'd call that game a good minimum standard to pursue. my 2 cents... well, $1.49 plus tax at this point...
VolteFace Grunt (5/28/00 2:43:42 pm) Reply	Re: CNC eK, please stop harrassing VTI! We are not saying we are better than Isis! We don't come close. Why do we need to compete anyway? It's not like anyone gets money or anything. When the games are released, they can both be d\led. What's the problem? Volte-Face "Commander Keen for President!"
Snaily Grunt (5/28/00 8:07:20 pm) Reply	Isometric platformgame. Sonic 3D on the Genesis/megadrive. ________ ¨@_
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