Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen

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Killspy Vortininja Posts: 235 (11/14/02 8:23 pm) Reply	Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen We gotta think of ways to get Tom Hall back the rights to Commander Keen. So this topic is to post/try..etc. ideas for this. Is there any way to swamp id Softwares websites so much that they shut-down or something?
Snaily Messie Posts: 630 (11/14/02 8:45 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Yep, because making illegal attacks sure are going to make them turn over the rights. ________ 杓_
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 237 (11/14/02 8:56 pm) Reply	Oh Its illegal to visit a web-site at mass?
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 243 (11/14/02 11:28 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen What about buying him the rights back? That would probably take alot of money though..
chogall Vorticon Elder Posts: 1094 (11/15/02 12:04 am) Reply ezSupporter	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Clueless newbies always suggest ridiculous things.
Ilsoap Flect Posts: 513 (11/15/02 12:18 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Here's a possibility: For years, Keen fans have been writing iD software, asking for them to give the rights to Tom Hall. Now, if I was in charge of iD, and I found out that lots of people were still interested in Commander Keen, would I give the rights to Tom Hall? Probably not, because people are obviously still interested in it. But, if everyone suddenly STOPPED sending them letters, then it might suddenly seem like no one is interested in Keen. And why hold onto a game no one is interested in? So my solution to this question... don't e-mail them asking for the rights back. (It's so crazy it just might work!) Objects in computer screen may be closer than they appear.
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 244 (11/15/02 2:25 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Hey Im not totally clueless! Anyways, stopping letters to them might work. Edited by: Killspy at: 11/15/02 2:31:07 am
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 247 (11/15/02 2:33 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen I e-mailed Tom Hall asking him for any pointers or ideas he had about problems that may be in my Famgame, and he replied this: Thanks for liking Keen so much you want to do a game with him! id owns the rights to Keen, and they seem sorta down on fangames, so I probably wouldn't bother contacting them. I made up Keen, so of course I have the knowledge, however, I can't really work on anything Keen until I get the rights back. Since it is a fan game, just do whatever you want -- take your own initiative. There's a lot of Keen knowledge at the Cerebral Cortex 314 fan site, probably more than I remember! One bit of advice -- the hardest thing to do in making a game is to finish. Maybe try to make a simple game, finish it, then make some grand 3D epic! Anyway, best of luck, and take care, Tom
KeenRush Garg Posts: 1310 (11/15/02 4:48 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen That's cool! Good idea, Ilsoap.. But what if they find information about all those Keen websites and Keen newsletter + this forum and info about fangames that are currently in progress? Keened.
Nospike88 Vortininja Posts: 192 (11/15/02 5:58 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen We'll just have to hope they don't!
KeenRush Garg Posts: 1315 (11/15/02 6:30 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Or then stop the whole community for a year. Though I couldn't stop. Keened.
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 255 (11/15/02 6:35 am) Reply	Why id Still has Keen Rights Tom Hall wrote me this when I asked him why he wasnt allowed the rights: Hahaha... thanks. The way we worked it out, the stuff stays with the company, so it survives. Stinks in retrospect, but if everyone's livelihood happened to be based on Keen, and I left with him, they'd be in trouble. Anyway, that's the deal. Thanks for the support! Take care, Tom
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 256 (11/15/02 6:38 am) Reply	Huh Would id really try to shut all the Keen sites down?
KeenRush Garg Posts: 1316 (11/15/02 6:46 am) Reply	Re: Huh iD's stooopid. Keened.
Djaser Vorticon Elite Posts: 413 (11/15/02 8:49 pm) Reply	Re: Huh I hate ID, they do nothing with the Keen rights and refuse to sell it to Tom Hall. I doubt they will be more worth if they wait longer.... -----Djaser est un nation pr彋endue neutre mais, dans la r嶧lit�, il ne l'est pas car il n'arr皻e pas d'皻re envahie par les uns et sauv廥 par les autres. Djaser est normalement r嶲ie par une f廩dalit�...-----
KeenRush Garg Posts: 1328 (11/15/02 9:01 pm) Reply	Re: Huh Well, there's only one way left. * No fires!! * But.. * No fires!! * Maybe th.. * No fires!!!! * Keened.
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 261 (11/15/02 10:15 pm) Reply	Think Come on, we gotta think!!! if Keen has tought us nothing, its to use our brains!!!
Xtraverse Stranded Fish Posts: 660 (11/16/02 12:42 am) Reply	Re: Think *Quote:* if Keen has tought us nothing, its to use our brains!!! err..something's a little wrong there.
Killspy Vortininja Posts: 265 (11/16/02 1:45 am) Reply	Re: Think Correction: If Keen has tought us anything, its to use our brains.
KeenRush Garg Posts: 1332 (11/16/02 7:47 am) Reply	Re: Think My IQ isn't 314.. Maybe we just should collect money, and buy the rights. And then give them for Tom Hall for free! Keened.
Djaser Vorticon Elite Posts: 420 (11/16/02 6:28 pm) Reply	Re: Think If you want so: added a poll.... -----Djaser est un nation pr彋endue neutre mais, dans la r嶧lit�, il ne l'est pas car il n'arr皻e pas d'皻re envahie par les uns et sauv廥 par les autres. Djaser est normalement r嶲ie par une f廩dalit�...-----
Flaose Pooper, King of the Slugs Posts: 459 (11/16/02 10:32 pm) Reply	Re: Think When you guys have a few hundred thousand USD, call me up and I'll chip my share in. -------------------- Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.
commanderklown Vortininja Posts: 68 (11/17/02 12:35 am) Reply	tom hall tom hall was lead programmer in lots of id's games. he practically got the company going is there a connection between id and 3drealms?
BlueIllusionX Vortininja Posts: 115 (11/17/02 12:57 am) Reply	ehm i doubt we would get enough even if we are at the age of 30. My guess tom offerd at least 500,000 for it.
Too Much Spare Time King Slug Posts: 514 (11/17/02 3:36 am) Reply	haha Keen obviously didn't teach us about correct spelling though... "tought"? You mean "taught"!!!
xManofGoD Grunt Posts: 27 (11/29/02 7:25 pm) Reply	Re: tom hall there is indeed a connection. Thanks to Apogee/3DR id did the commander keen games. I suggest that you check out the History of sections of both 3DR and id to get the complete story.
KeenCommander Vorticon Elite Posts: 446 (11/30/02 4:59 am) Reply	Re: tom hall *Quote:* tom hall was lead programmer in lots of id's games. Actually he was creative director. John Carmack wrote the code with some help from John Romero. Edited by: KeenCommander at: 12/1/02 11:51:19 pm
thenewmoonsidianX Vortininja Posts: 142 (12/6/02 1:11 am) Reply	Commander Keen and Monkey Island I will now compare Commander Keen and Monkey Island together, as they are in the same position (sort of)..... 1: Invasion of the Vorticons / Secret of Monkey Island -id / Lucasfilm makes hit series / game. Yay. 2: Goodbye Galaxy + Aliens Ate My Babysitter / Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge -Companies make good sequel. Even bigger hit. 3: Tom Hall / Ron Gilbert -Geniuses behind the hit games leave their companies. The companies are left with great game rights and have no clue what to do with them. 4: Save Earth's Butt (GBC Game) / Escape from Monkey Island -Companies decide they "can make it without the right people" and slap together a game that's nowhere near as good as the originals. But worth playing. 5: The Universe is Toast / Monkey Island 3a: The Secret Revealed or Your Money Back! -Titles of the true next series by the original geniuses. Both are trying to get their rights to their respective games back as we speak. You be the judge on this. :P
CKmaster Grunt Posts: 12 (12/10/02 11:25 am) Reply	We as a union! maybe we should go sorta underground with a secret keen community that id wont find, if we had to we could perhaps use older ways of communicating what we keen stuff. we need, im no expert but if we want to gain the right we have to use our power as a union to hide. what i mean is, u more experienced guys reckon we should stop all interest in keen from id's point of view, this means that we should make id believe we have given up, all the programs and games and stuff can be still played but in secret to id. if u get what i mean. what im saying is that id wont find any evidence of the keen community, (ie websites, games for download, constant mailing to id etc!) therefore comming to the obvious conclusion that we have given up hope and they might give up the rights. we should leave the odd (supposedly) aboandoned sites for information purposes and ti encourage newcomers to the community, what do ya say! are you with me!
Killspy Vorticon Elite Posts: 340 (12/10/02 11:26 pm) Reply	Re: We as a union! Im not to sure if that would work, but its a good idea! I think the best shot would be to hold some sort of huge bake sale! Just kidding. We should find some sort of protest. Too bad we all dont work there, we could hold a strike.
Scizor CT Vortininja Posts: 113 (12/11/02 2:46 am) Reply	Re: We as a union! We could just refuse to buy any ID products until they surrender the rights... My Remixes: Here! Click here!
ChargingMoose Vortininja Posts: 137 (12/11/02 4:25 am) Reply	Re: We as a union! Yeah, that would do a lot of good. 50 or so keeners don't buy their products. Even if a few thousand people refused to buy ID products, it wouldn't work. They wouldn't even notice!
Djaser Vorticon Elite Posts: 495 (12/11/02 7:12 am) Reply	Re: We as a union! With their populair (but worse) games like Quake and Doom? No, I don't think most Keeners here like them.... -----Djaser est un nation pr彋endue neutre mais, dans la r嶧lit�, il ne l'est pas car il n'arr皻e pas d'皻re envahie par les uns et sauv廥 par les autres. Djaser est normalement r嶲ie par une f廩dalit�...-----
ChargingMoose Vortininja Posts: 138 (12/11/02 4:20 pm) Reply	Re: We as a union! Hey, Doom and Quake are some of my favorite games! I have actually probably spent more time playing and making levels for doom than I have for any other game ever made. I still have a very special place for keen in my heart, though, and keen 2 was one of the first pc games I ever played.
Ckmaster Grunt Posts: 6 (12/11/02 5:50 pm) Reply	no you dont understand right the idea was that we make ID believe that we just have no interest in them or Keen, (not that we ever really could! ) and supposedly they would lose their 'stake' in the rights for keen, that or we could form some kinda major protest but we'd need just reasoning. as much as i keen i dont think we have really 'just' reasons!!! we have to really think hard!!! i still think the CK community shut down would be good, ( my above idea) Why not visit my website, WWW.Geocities.com/ckodysee
ChargingMoose Vortininja Posts: 139 (12/11/02 7:44 pm) Reply	Re: no you dont understand I very highly doubt that the reason behind them not giving the rights to Tom has anything to do with a small Keen community in any way, shape, or form. It would make me very sad to see this community shut down. And again, I don't think they would even notice if we went off line.
Xtraverse Stranded Fish Posts: 824 (12/11/02 8:03 pm) Reply	Re: no you dont understand Heh..I don't buy ID products anyways.. The problem with going underground is there's still gonna be tons of other Keeners out there that want TUIT, and ID knows that. Going underground wouldn't help.
Killspy Vorticon Elite Posts: 366 (12/13/02 6:53 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen How about we all send a Merry Christmas Card to the head of iD on Christmas. Thats could be alot of e-mails. And at the bottom a little P.S. saying, give Tom Hall the rights to Keen. Happy Holidays! Just a thought.
Djaser Vorticon Elite Posts: 500 (12/13/02 7:35 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen If we use Keengamers card, I'm in for it ! -----Djaser est un nation pr彋endue neutre mais, dans la r嶧lit�, il ne l'est pas car il n'arr皻e pas d'皻re envahie par les uns et sauv廥 par les autres. Djaser est normalement r嶲ie par une f廩dalit�...-----
Killspy Vorticon Elite Posts: 376 (12/14/02 1:19 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Why not!
KeenRush Garg Posts: 1561 (12/14/02 10:08 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen That's good idea! I do that, but what is the e-mail address? The universe is not toast!
xManofGoD Grunt Posts: 28 (12/14/02 8:43 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen I read everyones entry on this subject, and now I'll chime in. id can sit on the IP forever if they choose. Buying the IP rights will cost more than 500K. For example, when id was informed as to how much 3D Realms received for the Max Payne IP they were shocked. I know, cause I was sitting right there. Let me put the IP price into perspective: THQ bought Valuesoft (a entire game publisher) for just over $34 million, in contrast 3D Realms got more for the Max Payne IP rights....that's a whole publishing company for less than 1 game IP. Not all is lost though....the fact that they did allow CK on the game boy advanced shows that with the proper amount of publisher interest and money, they will allow development. However, gone are the days that it will be on PC or 2D. I do advise everyone NOT to create your own Keen title and hope id doesn't notice. They will. Think of it this way, if I own some land that I don't see everyday, and someone built a house on that land....I would then own that house free and clear without having to pay for it. The only hope you have is to get a game development team to do a complete game for free, and then offer the game as Freeware....but if it is done really well....id can step in and take it. id holds all the cards and will play them as they see fit. Good luck to everyone, I've always liked Keen, Duke, Earthworm Jim and Crazy Drake side scroller games. Just in case you didn't know Doom had it's 10th birthday last week.
Killspy Vorticon Elite Posts: 400 (12/14/02 10:50 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen I was planning (when I first started) on writting all the notes about every aspect of my fangame, and then see if iD would buy it. I dont know anymore though. I just dont see why they dont want to make more. It wouldnt take as long as a 3D game with huge landscapes. Keen fits on a floppy disk for Keens sake.
Flaose Pooper, King of the Slugs Posts: 538 (12/15/02 5:54 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen One problem...nobody would buy it -------------------- Cerebral Cortex 314 - For All of your Commander Keen Needs.
xManofGoD Grunt Posts: 29 (12/16/02 8:47 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Killspy: "I just dont see why they dont want to make more. It wouldnt take as long as a 3D game with huge landscapes. Keen fits on a floppy disk for Keens sake." One word: Money. sure everyone here thinks keen is the greatest, but look at it from id's point of view. Keen made them a couple a hundred thousand dollars in a few years. Doom made a couple a hundred thousand dollars a month. All of their true 3D games have made millions. So what makes more business since: 1. Make a series of games that fits on a floppy disk and might make a few hundred thousand dollars in a few years. or 2. Make a hi-tech 3d game that doesn't fit on a floppy disk and will make millions the first year. choice is clear.
GooberMan Vortininja Posts: 65 (12/16/02 12:01 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Doom had it's 9th birthday. It was released 10th December 1993. There are US laws that protect fan works, but again as is the case with the whole "Foxed" issue over in FPS land, it's a case of small development team against big industry giant threatening to sue your asses for eternity type scenario. id hold the cards, and I'm not too sure if they care about their fans at all in this case.
Djaser Vorticon Elite Posts: 510 (12/16/02 4:48 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen If they think they can't make money with Keen why don't they sell it. Or if they think they can why don't they make a new Keen game, besides their Doom projects. For example why did they make port of Wolfenstein 3D for the gameboy? I don't think they expected earning milions with it since the game doesn't work on the gameboy advance. It will be very easy to make a good Keen game for the gameboy advance, but they made a cheap game for the gameboy color with the wrong people. Remember that ID earned more money with games like Doom but that was later than the Keen games. At that time it was more easy to earn money for games. -----Djaser est un nation pr彋endue neutre mais, dans la r嶧lit�, il ne l'est pas car il n'arr皻e pas d'皻re envahie par les uns et sauv廥 par les autres. Djaser est normalement r嶲ie par une f廩dalit�...----- Edited by: Djaser at: 12/16/02 4:50:39 pm
KeenCommander Vorticon Elite Posts: 479 (12/16/02 7:52 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen I dunno if that movie/clip "Legacy of Doom" was completely true, but according to it, Doom was so popular because the environment was so good that almost everyone could enjoy it. 2d games dion't appeal to everyone, because they were more un-realistic and, ehm, flat. Dang, I don't remember where it was. It had some interesting stuff about the original Dooms, and Doom III. At the moment, I think it would be most likely, and the best solution if Monkeystone make a Pocket PC Commander Keen. maybe I'm just biased against consoles; I just don't see myself buying a strictly gaming machine anytime soon. Besides Tom Hall would be in charge then. Edited by: KeenCommander at: 12/16/02 7:56:54 pm
Killspy Vorticon Elite Posts: 437 (12/16/02 10:22 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen iD rather make millions in a year by selling 3D games, but why cant they do that, and go for some extra by making Keen games. Im sure Tom Hall would help em out.
KeenCommander Vorticon Elite Posts: 480 (12/17/02 4:56 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen Keep in mind, it costs to build a game. The total cost probably far exceeds what they'd make.
xManofGoD Grunt Posts: 30 (12/17/02 3:38 pm) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen How frustrating it is to explain business sense to gamers who only want what they want. Wolf3d on GBA, they didn't make it, Stalker Ent., did. Why did they authorize it? It's a known property of a recent 3D hit. can anyone explain why Crystal Caves, or Monster Bash, or any of the old BIG hits of Apogee never came out with a sequel? The answer is they moved on to bigger and better projects that would make more money. Go to any software store and look at how many 3D FPS's there are vs 2D side scrollers. In fact just list 1 2D side scroller if you can. Retailers have business sense too, they know what the mass market wants, and 2D side scrollers aren't it. Filbert Fledgling just came out, and it is a 2D side scroller, yet, only budget publishers would touch it, and then if put on the market it would only be in a Jewel cased product display and would be seen as a budget title to the consumer, not to mention the royalty to the developer is only about 10% of net receipts. the reason they don't sell the IP is because they know if they ever do sell out the biz, the more IP's they have the more money they can get. While they don't see keen as large IP, it is part of who id software is, and when grouped together with the other IP's it makes the whole worth much more. I love this comment by Djaser: Remember that ID earned more money with games like Doom but that was later than the Keen games. He wants to see a keen game so bad, he proves my point for me, and Isn't that what I've been saying the whole time? I leave this note with a question for all of you. With the same amount of people used in making the Keen games of the past, how much would it cost to make a New PC only Keen title selling at retail? I'll even make it a little easier for you, the whole development project takes 6 months. Good luck.
Killspy Vorticon Elite Posts: 446 (12/18/02 12:24 am) Reply	Re: Getting Tom Hall the Rights to Keen I guess your right. I rather by a 3D game then a 2D game... , unless the 2D game was Keen.
thenewmoonsidianX Vortininja Posts: 143 (12/22/02 8:51 pm) Reply	??? Quote: I do advise everyone NOT to create your own Keen title and hope id doesn't notice. They will. Well, I'm doing only one Keen project in the future...and won't even be labeled "Commander Keen" on the front. (You shall see ) If Ck fans stopped doing what they do, TMST would be out of work.