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Author
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Comment
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ChargingMoose 
Grunt
Posts: 1
(4/16/01 5:13 pm)
Reply
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First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
Spring break ended today, but I spent all last week figuring out how to edit keen 4+ levels - and finished the first one last night. I don't have the internet at home right now, and I don't have it with me, so I don't have proof just this minute; I'll have it tomorrow.
By examining gamemaps.ck4 with a hex editor and the TED5 source, I figured out how the levels are stored. At first, I was just editing gamemaps with a hex editor, not accomplishing much except figuring out what the sprite numbers are. At the end of each level in the file, it has header information, including the offset in the file for where the beginning of each of the planes (background, foreground, info). These work kind of like pointers, and I changed the ones for the bean-with-bacon megarocket to point at the ones for other levels, like the isle of fire - so when you go to the megarocket, it takes you to the isle of fire! Then one morning while I was in the shower it occured to me that I could add on to the end of the file and make the offsets point to the new level - and it works!!!! I modified TED5 a little bit, and made a level in it. The tiles are all messed up (they're for rise of the triad), but I managed to create a level, carmackize it (saves it to a gamemaps file (gamemaps.scb)), then I coppied it out of the gamemaps.scb and to the end of gamemaps.ck4 and changed the header for the bwb megarocket to point to my new level. This was rather tedious to do everytime I changed something, so yesterday, I wrote a simple program to do it for me - slick!
Anyways, class is about to end - I'll be back here same time tomorrow
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 chogall
Vorticon Elder
Posts: 514
(4/16/01 5:32 pm)
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ezSupporter
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
Way to go!
Does this mean that a Keen 4 level editor is possible?
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The NEW spaz 
Vortininja
Posts: 83
(4/16/01 8:01 pm)
Reply
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Hmm..
You should talk to adurdin about this, since he is trying to create a real keen 4 editor.
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forge
Vortininja
Posts: 61
(4/16/01 10:27 pm)
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First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
These are cools times!
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 2
(4/17/01 4:58 pm)
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Here it is...
I'm suprised nobody doubted me. Here comes some guy you have never heard of claiming to have done something nobody has done before. I'm kind of sad nobody contested, I would have liked to shove this in their face. Anyways, get it here -> www.geocities.com/chargin...tlevel.zip
Tell me what you think
Edit: I changed the address to a link. --Snortimer
Edited by: Snortimer  at: 4/17/01 8:27:34 pm
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VolteFace 
Vortininja
Posts: 214
(4/17/01 8:22 pm)
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:eek
!!!! 
OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD!!! It works! It's also an awesome level, but more importantly, IT WORKS!
This person here before us today (ChargingMoose) is a genius! You are a hero! There have been hackers trying for 8 years to get the level data out of that thing, but you finally did it! WAY TO GO!!!
Well, I'm done ranting...
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VolteFace
Vortininja
Posts: 215
(4/17/01 8:23 pm)
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Re: :eek
Also, one more thing: Were the isometric tiles stored separatly? What I mean is, were the tops and the bottoms (the part you can stand on) separate?
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chogall
Vorticon Elder
Posts: 518
(4/17/01 8:58 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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=)
This is great! I tried the level too and it works perfectly!
The process of creating the level sounds a little complicated. But I'm sure that with this info, it will be possible to create a level editor program, right?
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 86
(4/17/01 10:05 pm)
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Re: =)
Volte-Face: yes, the 'upper' and 'lower' tiles are stored separately, and can be changed independently.
And yes, and editor is certainly possible, as I have said all along :) -- unfortunately the Easter break has just ended, so I'll only be able to squeeze small amounts of time in to work on the editor.
Andrew
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The NEW spaz
Vortininja
Posts: 84
(4/17/01 10:59 pm)
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....
AWESOME ! Wow, with a hex editor? This guy should deserve a proce =)
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Lyris
Vortininja
Posts: 139
(4/17/01 11:29 pm)
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Re: ....
So he should! = )
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Ilsoap
Vortininja
Posts: 169
(4/18/01 5:36 am)
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Good job!
I too have done some stuff with a hex editor (and it was with the BWB level, but I never figured out enough to make it coherent. Good job!
So what's the speed of dark, anyway? |
VF4588
Vortininja
Posts: 160
(4/18/01 2:09 pm)
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Re: Good job!
Awesome. 
I really look forward to play new levels :B
Man, I don't understand a bit of programming, and I don't think I will either 
Great work, ChargingMoose 
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 3
(4/18/01 4:46 pm)
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...
Wow, I did in one week what hasn't been done in 8 years? I've been a keen fan for a long time (10 years now, I remember thinking how I was the same age as him), and I have always wanted to make levels for it. I have been disappointed that there are only editors for 1-3. I spent about 5 to 10 hours a day over spring break figuring out how to make keen4 levels (and 5-6 for that matter), but now that it's over, I'll only be able to spend about an hour a day developing an editor. Actually, what I would like to do is just get the graphics into ted5 correctly. Does anybody know how the egagraph files work? ted5 is a perfectly good editor for this, it just looks really funky right now with rise of the triad tiles. I am working on more levels currently, so there's more to come...
p.s. Could I have a rank boost? I don't think I should be a grunt after what I've done...
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VF4588
Vortininja
Posts: 164
(4/18/01 6:23 pm)
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Re: ...
LOL, our 2nd hero, CG
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Frenkel
Grunt
Posts: 7
(4/18/01 7:21 pm)
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Re: ...
I get an error when I want to download the file. Could somebody mail it to me at sander@sfprod.com. That's my brother e-mailadress. Mine is frenkel@sfprod.com, but I don't look there every day.
Look at www.3drealms.com/cgi-bin/...6&t=001303 for something interesting .
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Frenkel
Grunt
Posts: 8
(4/18/01 7:33 pm)
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Re: ...
You should edit Bio Menace levels instead of Rise of the Triad levels. Just place Ted5.exe insite the Bio Menace directory. It works. It used a modified engine of Keen 4,5,6. So the levels make more sence than the Rott levels, which are top-view and Bio Menace is side-view.
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VolteFace
Vortininja
Posts: 221
(4/18/01 8:23 pm)
Reply
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Re: ...
Chogall: You should give ChargingMoose a special user-title!
ChargingMoose: Vortininja status comes naturally (after 31 posts I think)
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KeenCommander
Vortininja
Posts: 93
(4/18/01 8:24 pm)
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Re: ...
Well ChargingMoose, let me say YOU'RE WAAAY COOL MAN!!!!!
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forge
Vortininja
Posts: 63
(4/18/01 11:27 pm)
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Re: ...
Quote:
I get an error when I want to download the file. Could somebody mail it to me at sander@sfprod.com. That's my brother e-mailadress. Mine is frenkel@sfprod.com, but I don't look there every day.
You can try to download the file at my site - http://www.crosswinds.net/~forge315/
Or if that doesn’t work I can probably e-mail it to you.
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 4
(4/19/01 10:28 pm)
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got graphics?
I tried that thing that Frenkel said was interesting, and it works!! Now in ted5, the graphics actually look like keen! This is great!!! I will rewrite my ksplice program (what I use to take the level info from the gamemaps that ted5 produces and stick it on to gamemaps.ck4) and then release it so everybody can make maps for keen4! I'm not releasing it now because it has some problems, but it won't take long.
Woohoo!! (I'm excited)
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Snortimer
Vorticon Elite
Posts: 715
(4/20/01 1:37 am)
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Re: got graphics?
Well, I downloaded the level a few days ago, but my screen's pixels have been burning out lately and I can barely see enough to move Keen around because the screen is so dark.
I guess I'll have to wait until I have a new montitor... (which, alas, will be a long wait!) 
From what I managed to play though, I congratulate you.
What are the exact dates you started and finished the level?
This is a historic moment that deserves to be remembered, so try to remember!
Sincerely,
S.M.
"You cannot pass!" he said.
With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed. |
KeenEmpire
Grunt
Posts: 9
(4/20/01 3:12 pm)
Reply
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Re: Download not found
Both download sites arnt found when i try going to them. Can ya pls E-Mail me @ a4leafmissle@hotmail.com pls? Ok I've been mean in other keen stuff....very mean belp!
man too bad i was 2 years old when keen came out it forces me to believe that it wasn't that long cause i didn't live that long, sheesh how sad. I can, however, tell this really is a mini-keen paritigm shift; the turning point of a long and crooked history when light is shed, blah blah blah or something like that.
PS dont know how to use an editor hehehehehehhe see if i can mess uup stuff a bit
Hello. Good Morning. Good night. Good Afternoon. Good noon? Oh yeah, good midnight. Cya.
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The NEW spaz
Vortininja
Posts: 87
(4/20/01 3:19 pm)
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What about..
What about using the graphic stuff of keen itself? Cho'Gall told me there is a way to open the graphics of Keen4 in TED5. You should find it on the 3DRealms board.
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 5
(4/20/01 4:16 pm)
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That's what I meant
I used that ck4dump utility to extract the graphics and load them into ted5. It works! It's cool to think that I am making levels with the exact same editor and graphics and stuff that was used to create the original.
I started that level on Friday, April 13, 2001, and finished on Sunday, April 15, 2001. I spent the previous week (the 6th through the 12th) figuring out the format and compression.
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The NEW spaz
Vortininja
Posts: 88
(4/20/01 8:36 pm)
Reply
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Mmm
Well you can't actually load levels (I think). And you import them on another way in the gamemap.
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Frenkel
Grunt
Posts: 9
(4/21/01 11:30 am)
Reply
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Re: Mmm
All the downloads for the new level still doesn't work. So please e-mail it to me at sander@sfprod.com (recommended) or frenkel@sfprod.com
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JR Ewing2000
Grunt
Posts: 1
(4/21/01 6:09 pm)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
WOW, the first new Commander Keen 4 level, and I thought it was impossible. ChargingMoose proved us wrong, well some poeple knew it was possible and I guess I did too but my thinking at the time was it'd be a long long time before it ever happened, but it happened alot soon that I thought. I'm really impressed. It's gonna be nice having new Commander Keen levels. I'll probably never be a good side-scrolling game level maker, 3D games like Wolf3d and ROTT seem to be my talent, but it never hurts to try does it.
I was having trouble downloading the level using both links that you gave us. And I'm really wanting to play that level, so could you please send it to ryans32@hotmail.com
Thanks
JR Ewing
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forge
Vortininja
Posts: 71
(4/22/01 12:31 am)
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I can't do it
I’m sorry but I can't e-mail anybody the file, because I do not have it. That’s why I said a could probably do it and not that a can. I tried uploading the file directly to my site, but it only uploaded a blank file, so that did not work. I then tried to download the file myself, and geocities being sucky in general, doesn’t allow that kind of stuff; the link has to be directly from the site in order for it to work. How in the world anybody downloaded the file in the first place is beyond me, sorry but my hands are tied.
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adurdin
Vortininja
Posts: 98
(4/22/01 10:39 am)
Reply
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Re: I have it
I managed to download it OK. If you want it, just email me: (adurdin@yahoo.com), and I'll attach it to a reply. It's just under 100kb.
Andrew
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JR Ewing2000
Grunt
Posts: 6
(4/23/01 3:52 am)
Reply
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Re: I have it
As soon as I get the level from Andrew, I'll upload it to my site so it can be downloaded. (I was gonna do it anyway) When I get it I'll let you know what the link is.
Ryan
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 6
(4/23/01 5:42 pm)
Reply
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Keen 4 level editing kit
Over the weekend, I rewrote my Keensplice program. Now that I have that and have TED5 working properly with keen4 graphics, I have put together a little kit to make levels. geocities didn't seem to work too well, so I got some space at 50megs. I can't link directly to the files from here so you have to go there. I didn't spend much time on my page, as if you couldn't tell. chargingmoose.50megs.com/
unzip the thing in your keen4 directory.
Here begins the legacy of new Keen 4 levels
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Frenkel
Grunt
Posts: 12
(4/23/01 6:48 pm)
Reply
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Re: Keen 4 level editing kit
www.3drealms.com/cgi-bin/...6&t=001303
You can edit the Keen 4 levels in Ted5.
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JR Ewing2000
Grunt
Posts: 7
(4/24/01 1:45 am)
Reply
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Question In Ted5
To make a level really good you must have moving platforms, switches, doors, etc. Well doors and switches are my question, the switch needs to know what object it's supposed to turn on or off, how do i link the two objects, nothing in the TED5help helped me, also I'm working on a new world map, I need to know how to put a teleport so you will be teleported into a level, how do i do this. '
Hope this isn't confusing anyone, it's hard to word it all.
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JR Ewing2000
Grunt
Posts: 9
(4/25/01 7:55 pm)
Reply
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Re: Question In Ted5
Nevermind, I figured it all out, now I can start making fancy levels!!!!! See ya
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Big J Q
Grunt
Posts: 4
(4/26/01 5:52 am)
Reply
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levels don't work?
How can I actually made my level work? I have created a platform in emptiness, and tried putting every icon that looks like Keen's helmet, but everytime I try it, the game crashes. (black screen, the only way out is to reset computer)
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Hanno Embregts
Grunt
Posts: 5
(5/17/01 7:47 am)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
Hey Charging moose, I played your BWB Megarocket level and it is really great! 
How is the Keen level editor going?
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adurdin
Grunt
Posts: 17
(5/17/01 1:59 pm)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
My editor? It's on hold for the moment, because I'm trying to balance full-time studies with exams approaching and two part-time jobs... all of which leaves me little time for much else...
However, the editor is first on my list for the holidays after the exams.
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AzathothSpawn
Grunt
Posts: 1
(5/23/01 11:24 pm)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
Well, I tried the level, and it was great! However, chargingmoose, the link on your page to the level editor was broken. I got a 404 when I tried it, anyway. Just thought you should know.
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Tony Gies 
Vortininja
Posts: 118
(5/25/01 8:47 pm)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
I created a level for Keen 6 about a month back, but it's not half as good as that. I'll upload it to my FTP site, commanderkeen.d2g.com, ASAP! I'm working on a level for Keen Dreams.
StartAt
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Tony Gies
Vortininja
Posts: 119
(5/25/01 8:52 pm)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
...so I guess I can take credit for the FIRST level, but I can't take credit for the first level that doesn't look like it was designed by pigs with cerebal palsy. :-)
StartAt
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 7
(5/26/01 11:05 pm)
Reply
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-
I know the link is broken for the editor. theoddone was kind enough to inform me that I was including material that is not legal for me to distribute. I will put together a legal package soon.
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VolteFace
Vortininja
Posts: 245
(5/27/01 10:27 pm)
Reply
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Re: -
I'm glad I downloaded it 5 minutes after it was uploaded!
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Ilsoap
Vortininja
Posts: 195
(5/28/01 6:45 pm)
Reply
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Error
I found the first error in your level, ChargingMoose. It's not a big one, but it is worth mentioning. There is a small area in the level that you reach by sliding down a pole. It has two switchboard things (that turn from red to green). At the start of the level, the one closer to the pole is green, and the farther one is red. If you turn the green one to red, you can't get the red gem anymore (if you didn't get it already) and thus can not free the Elder.
It's not a big error, and the fact that that's the only error that's been found so far means that you did a great job making the level. I just thought you might want to know that.
So what's the speed of dark, anyway? |
adurdin
Grunt
Posts: 24
(5/28/01 10:38 pm)
Reply
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Re: Error
I thought that was intentional, as flipping that switch allows you to go out the exit on the right-hand side of the level.
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 8
(5/29/01 4:20 pm)
Reply
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Not an error
adurdin is correct. The switch that is already green is there as a trick; it disables a platform that was moving. You can still beat the level, but you can't save the council member.
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The Talking Dog123
Grunt
Posts: 19
(6/1/01 7:28 am)
Reply
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Re: Not an error
Can you please e-mail the Keen 4 Level Editing Kit or whatever it is to me at the_langdons@yahoo.co.nz today if possible(today for you is tonight for me).
I really want to make some cool Keen 4 levels and test my sister on them! She's good at levels if she uses the God Mode cheat!! Actually, on Point Blank, using the gun controller she's almost as good as me. And, I'm two years and three months older than her!!
She's okay with lemmings. But I can actually do Save Me(that annoying level in mayhem) WITHOUT trying for a second time due to failure on the first. I have major problems when trying to complete Oh No! More Lemmings! though.
Okay i'll admit it i am shockshund but please don't ban me i'll be a good doggy now(i'm saying doggy because shockshunds are doggies plus my id is the talking dog123) |
chogall
Vorticon Elder
Posts: 559
(6/1/01 2:56 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
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Re: Not an error
Complete instructions for editing Keen 4 levels can be found at CC314's level page.
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The Talking Dog123
Grunt
Posts: 21
(6/1/01 9:22 pm)
Reply
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Re: Not an error
To chogall... I couldn't find anything about editing levels on CC314.
Okay i'll admit it i am shockshund but please don't ban me i'll be a good doggy now(i'm saying doggy because shockshunds are doggies plus my id is the talking dog123) |
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The Talking Dog123
Vortininja
Posts: 44
(6/2/01 8:56 am)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
try to fix it as soon as possible. okay? btw i really want someone to e-mail me that level editing package!!!
Okay i'll admit it i am shockshund but please don't ban me i'll be a good doggy now(i'm saying doggy because shockshunds are doggies plus my id is the talking dog123) Edited by: The Talking Dog123 at: 6/5/01 12:50:48 am
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markgeurts
Grunt
Posts: 1
(7/8/01 10:07 am)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
Hi!
I have a question.
Do you know where i can download a Hex editor?
What is hex editor where can i download it?
[Edited by Cho'gall: Two messages merged into one.]
Edited by: chogall at: 8/8/01 11:24:06 am
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archagon
Grunt
Posts: 4
(9/16/01 5:41 am)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
I tried both links they dont work
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archagon
Grunt
Posts: 5
(9/16/01 5:42 am)
Reply
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Re: First completely NEW keen 4 level!!!!!!!!
i cant download from either link
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ChargingMoose
Grunt
Posts: 22
(9/16/01 9:21 pm)
Reply
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here
I just fixed the 50megs site chargingmoose.50megs.com/index.html
When I made this, I didn't have the graphics loaded into ted5, so it was a real pain to make things look good. I have since got the graphics working, and have made many more levels. They look much nicer, and have better layouts. I am remaking the original keen, making new levels that feel like the old ones. Here are some screen shots
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XkyRauh2001 
Vortininja
Posts: 98
(9/19/01 4:45 am)
Reply
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dude...
you know what'd rule?
if you went thru and re-made Keen1 using, say, Keen4's tileset. then Keen2 using Keen5's, then 3 with 6's... muahaha...
heck, if an editor was made, i'd be happy to take part in that :-) only hard part would be discussing enemy translations. *shrug*
--Xky
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Forge315 
Vortininja
Posts: 308
(9/20/01 6:55 pm)
Reply
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Re: dude...
There is also the problem of the tile limit in the earlier Keen games.
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